[Wolf Win] WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14 - GG WP

Cruxell
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Cruxell »

MMage wrote:(if everybody makes vanillager roles, Dreaming Gods won't be accepted)
What does that role do? I couldn't find it ever being used on nD.
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Mendel »

Cruxell wrote:
MMage wrote:(if everybody makes vanillager roles, Dreaming Gods won't be accepted)
What does that role do? I couldn't find it ever being used on nD.
http://www.neondragon.net/search.php?ke ... mit=Search
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Dreaming_God
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by wertydoo »

Blaze wrote:[Insert Name Here]: Has a gun in the game. Can shot one person each round.. 25% chance to kill the person. 25% chance to b caught by the cops, then his role is open to public. 25% chance to get an enemy, then 1 person gets to know his role. 25% chance to hospitize a person.
Blaze,
please refrain from using that kind of language in a public setting such as the forum itself. You may rename your ability to something else.
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Blaze »

wertydoo wrote:
Blaze wrote:[Insert Name Here]: Has a gun in the game. Can shot one person each round.. 25% chance to kill the person. 25% chance to b caught by the cops, then his role is open to public. 25% chance to get an enemy, then 1 person gets to know his role. 25% chance to hospitize a person.
Blaze,
please refrain from using that kind of language in a public setting such as the forum itself. You may rename your ability to something else.
sorry? did i insult this piece of shit commuity of 11 people?
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Blaze »

Here are fre rolemehanics
- Give somehing away to someone
- Take something away to someone
- Do something to another player to someone
- Do something to yourself
- Do something to everyone
- Make everyone not able to do something
- Make everyone give something to you
- Switch everyones something
- Swtch everyones role
- Swich certain players roles.
- Make something not happen
- Make nothing into something
-
thank you for reading
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by MMage »

As mentioned on discord, the game will start at 6pm PDT Wednesday. Your first PM will contain a mention of your alignment, the # role you are (corresponding to the numbered list in the OP), and any additional modifiers or role information required.
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Emziek »

It is Wednesday my dood
You must take this statement at face value because every statement I make is inherently correct.
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Mendel »

MMage on #werewolf_discussion wrote:so, everyone might wanna check to ensure that everything is good
with their role and the rolelist
and potential interactions i may have (i.e. probably) missed clarifying
Here's what I got so far:


1) High Noon, Oracle, and Outlaw actions are not compulsory, correct? These roles can choose to do nothing?
2) does the wolves have a nightkill? (they probably don't need one)
3) I don't understand your "overlap" note, both DW suicide and Oracle "negative true" kills are unconditional, and pierce any protection.


Gitaxian Probe
4) the role is traded "before death", which means the player who had the other role has a different role from that point on, which might affect some actions occurring in the sequence after that (e.g., DW immunity to kill, DW suicide, Succubus poisoning, etc.). It seems simpler to say that the role is swapped after death, at the very end of the round. But you have kills at the very end of the round anyway?

Succubus
5) what counts as a visit?
* High Noon challenge
* Oracle targetting a player
* passing a fragment
* Outlaw challenge
* Counter primary, Counter secondary
* wolves nightkill
* random peek (planned)
6) not a visit?
* reviving a villager / converting a villager to a wolf


Dark Wizard
7) the latest version we discussed on the public discord had it that the Wizard receives the role but not the name of their random soulbound, and the soulbound receives the information that they are soulbound to a Dark Wizard.
8) This will be very fun in the unlikely event that DW is copied, and the random soulbounds are the same (good decision on your part there to make randomness not copy), or the soulbound of one is a Dark Wizard themselves, as this offers the potential for a triple kill.

Oracle
9) I don't understand how fragments are passed. From your example, it appears you can pass a fragment even if you don't have one? My assumption from the description is that fragments are passed as a night action, i.e. you get one with your morning PM and pass it with your night action; and if the morning PM also says that you are the Oracle, you can kill someone with it.
10) It should be clarified whether fragment passing occurs before or after death, because presumably a dead player holding a fragment takes it out of the game. So what happens if I a) pass to a player who dies that round, b) a player who dies submits passing the fragment. It would be nice if either was a way to get a fragment out of the game.
11) When the Oracle holds a fragment, does it always kill either themselves, or their target? The answer depends in part on the previous question. Of course, the Oracle also makes a player unkillable, and since Oracle passing a fragment nullifies it, passing it to an unkillable player is another way to eliminate a fragment, correct?
12) Can the Oracle self-target for the effects action?
13) what is an effect, which effects are in the game, and which of them are positive or negative?

positive
-- Dark Wizard immune to kill and lynch
-- +1 bonus voting power on the soulbound
-- Councillor bonus vote
-- Counter-induced protection

negative
-- Dark Wizard dies IF soulbound dies (what does it mean to make this true? soulbound dies?)
-- poison contracted from succubus (does that mean poison can become insta-kill?)
-- fragment explodes IF held too long --> insta-explode?
-- outlaw / their target dies IF there is a bullet in the chamber

neutral
-- trade Gitaxian Probe before death
-- councillor reviving villager / adding wolf



Councillor
14) does the vote stack with DW soulbound? since the language is "as two", would it stack to 4 influence, or is it a double +1 for a total of 3 influence?
15) this role does not affect village parity: vote counts for two = parity with 2 wolves, resurrect one player but vannilize the role = lose the bonus vote = parity with 2 wolves
16) this is interesting if the wolves reach parity temporarily, e.g. through a wolf becoming soulbound, tho overtly this would still look like a 2 vs 2.
17) when the random player revives, does that re-activate a random role? or the role that the player held before death if it wasn't Gitaxian Probe (in which case it's the "traded" role)?

Counter
18) being compulsive and targetting two players means a 2/7 = 29% chance of getting poisoned by the Succubus, and being poisoned does not eliminate the Counter role, since it acts with a delay.
19) can this role self-target?
20) "purged period if on the 2nd round of the effect" means that player would get purged twice?
21) but if the Counter targetted the same purged player on consecutive rounds, the first COunter would reverse the order, and the second counter would un-reverse it, leading to protection for both rounds?
22) if the counter targets a purge target, will the secondary target then also be purged on the next round? or does the secondary effect only apply on the current round?
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by MMage »

Mendel wrote:1) High Noon, Oracle, and Outlaw actions are not compulsory, correct? These roles can choose to do nothing? Correct. Actually, I just don't like compulsory roles in the first place, so if I've fucked up my wording on these somewhere I'ma need to fix that.
2) does the wolves have a nightkill? (they probably don't need one) Now that's actually an idea. There ARE a whole bunch of murders lying around... I'll give that some thought. Maybe give the wolves a few vig shots instead of a full game nightly? Ehh, but we could get to the point wolves can't kill and all killing roles are gone, meaning only Lynch would determine the game...
3) I don't understand your "overlap" note, both DW suicide and Oracle "negative true" kills are unconditional, and pierce any protection. Well, one example of an overlap is the Oracle protection and the Dark Wizard's soulbound kill. Oracle protects from any death, but Dark Wizard kills unconditionally, so the point could be made that Oracle can protect Dark Wizard from semi-suicide. So, we has priority I can fall back on if these two roles ever overlap.


Gitaxian Probe
4) the role is traded "before death", which means the player who had the other role has a different role from that point on, which might affect some actions occurring in the sequence after that (e.g., DW immunity to kill, DW suicide, Succubus poisoning, etc.). It seems simpler to say that the role is swapped after death, at the very end of the round. But you have kills at the very end of the round anyway? I'm p sure the intention was to not fiddle with any actions occuring, but I'll go make that more clear. Probe happens during the Role Assignment phase.

Succubus
5) what counts as a visit?
* High Noon challenge Nope
* Oracle targetting a player Yup
* passing a fragment
* Outlaw challenge Yup
* Counter primary, Counter secondary Yup/Yup (1)
* wolves nightkill Yup
* random peek (planned) Nope, if I do go with that
6) not a visit?
* reviving a villager / converting a villager to a wolf Nope


Dark Wizard
7) the latest version we discussed on the public discord had it that the Wizard receives the role but not the name of their random soulbound, and the soulbound receives the information that they are soulbound to a Dark Wizard. I talked with werty about that, and he said it prevents some sort of sick hardcore play by wolves somehow? It wasn't made very clear (or I flat just didn't get it), so I nixed the extra info as it seems extraneous.
8) This will be very fun in the unlikely event that DW is copied, and the random soulbounds are the same (good decision on your part there to make randomness not copy), or the soulbound of one is a Dark Wizard themselves, as this offers the potential for a triple kill. Ahh, I should also nip Dark Wizard closed circles in the bud. Thank you for bringing (something close enough to) that up.

Oracle
9) I don't understand how fragments are passed. From your example, it appears you can pass a fragment even if you don't have one? My assumption from the description is that fragments are passed as a night action, i.e. you get one with your morning PM and pass it with your night action; and if the morning PM also says that you are the Oracle, you can kill someone with it.
10) It should be clarified whether fragment passing occurs before or after death, because presumably a dead player holding a fragment takes it out of the game. So what happens if I a) pass to a player who dies that round, b) a player who dies submits passing the fragment. It would be nice if either was a way to get a fragment out of the game.
11) When the Oracle holds a fragment, does it always kill either themselves, or their target? The answer depends in part on the previous question. Of course, the Oracle also makes a player unkillable, and since Oracle passing a fragment nullifies it, passing it to an unkillable player is another way to eliminate a fragment, correct?
New Oracle version cuts out the Fragments after a bit of debate as to the Oracle being too damn phat.
12) Can the Oracle self-target for the effects action? I don't see why not. The new Oracle purge steals buffs tho, so maybe on self-target it just gets rid of them to admonish self-protects.
13) what is an effect, which effects are in the game, and which of them are positive or negative? Yes for confirmation of valid, strikethrough for nope

positive
-- Dark Wizard immune to kill and lynch Yes, immunity can be purged for the round. Stealing the immunity doesn't make you immune to Lynch (see below).
-- +1 bonus voting power on the soulbound
-- Councillor bonus vote I've been straying away from things that influence Lynch as a by-product or secretively, but if people are fine with such a thing then I'm open to letting purge mess with bonus votes / stealing Wizard Lynch immunity.
-- Counter-induced protection Yes

negative
-- Dark Wizard dies IF soulbound dies (what does it mean to make this true? soulbound dies?) Technically yes, but since the self-kill is a higher priority than anything that could stop it, it doesn't change anything.
-- poison contracted from succubus (does that mean poison can become insta-kill?) Yes and maybe yes, depending on what you mean. Poison kills the round after application, so purging on that round would make poison kill for sure. On the round of application, poison doesn't kill so nothing happens.
-- fragment explodes IF held too long --> insta-explode?
-- outlaw / their target dies IF there is a bullet in the chamber Yes, that'd be a kill so it would become true.

neutral
-- trade Gitaxian Probe before death
-- councillor reviving villager / adding wolf No / Technically Yes - no purging corpses, they're already dead, and conversions can be made true even though there aren't any protections from them in the first place (if a conversion, counter, and purge occurred on the same character, the character would be converted as intended (as purge stops the counter-conversion), the counter would convert his secondary target to a villager (as there was a conversion to counter), and the Oracle would be converted to a villager (as purge copies the counter-conversion on its target).



Councillor
14) does the vote stack with DW soulbound? since the language is "as two", would it stack to 4 influence, or is it a double +1 for a total of 3 influence? 3 influence.
15) this role does not affect village parity: vote counts for two = parity with 2 wolves, resurrect one player but vannilize the role = lose the bonus vote = parity with 2 wolves Parity on ND is determined by # of living players, not voting power. Thus, reviving at the cost of the bonus vote is still +1 for village.
16) this is interesting if the wolves reach parity temporarily, e.g. through a wolf becoming soulbound, tho overtly this would still look like a 2 vs 2. See above on parity
17) when the random player revives, does that re-activate a random role? or the role that the player held before death if it wasn't Gitaxian Probe (in which case it's the "traded" role)? It would reactivate whatever role they died with (or were swapped into having via Probe), bringing it back into the rotation.

Counter
18) being compulsive and targetting two players means a 2/7 = 29% chance of getting poisoned by the Succubus, and being poisoned does not eliminate the Counter role, since it acts with a delay. I should remove that compulsory bit...
19) can this role self-target? Yes, but targeting the first AND second to yourself will just get you roleblocked (since that'd be a paradox of infinite reverse-actions).
20) "purged period if on the 2nd round of the effect" means that player would get purged twice? Yup.
21) but if the Counter targetted the same purged player on consecutive rounds, the first COunter would reverse the order, and the second counter would un-reverse it, leading to protection for both rounds? That'd been my intention, yes. Although, now I don't think I like purge being cast all over the place via secondary targets with two-round durations (even if it isn't a purge both times), but the alternative of only flipping that round's effect runs into the priority problem where purge > protect. Hmm. I'll revisit this in my role notes later.
22) if the counter targets a purge target, will the secondary target then also be purged on the next round? or does the secondary effect only apply on the current round? See above.
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by MMage »

Alrighty. PMs have been sent. Your PM should have a short sentence saying which alignment you are (and your allies if wolf), and any non-hidden modifiers you have (i.e. brutal or quantum seer).
Example village PM:
Spoiler!
You are a villager.

You are role 42.
The gamestate is thus:
Two Wolves; one shared toughness and one brutal (on a specific wolf)
Six Villagers; one tough, one Lynch-tough and one kill-tough (all hidden modifiers)
One role each round is the Quantum Seer (which is posted publicly) and gets a randomized peek (see the host post for more info).

Round 0 has ended.
Mendel has been Mauled.
Mendel has been saved by sheer dumb luck (Host Save).
Role 4 is the Quantum Seer for this round.
Round 1 will end Friday, 6pm PDT [GMT -7]. (just in case, round ends in ~47.5h from this post)
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Mendel »

Who mauled me? How can anyone maul me before the game had even started?
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Mendel »

Also, I am assuming two wolves, no neutrals, or is that secret?
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by MMage »

Mendel wrote:Who mauled me? How can anyone maul me before the game had even started?
R0 was changed from Hospitalized to Host Save since hospitalization on 8 players seems like a bad idea. So, you were "Mauled" but just for shits n giggles.
Rainboy wrote:Alternate Game Start: Host Save - Before the First Round starts, the Wolves/Mafia will choose one player to attack. That player will be saved and not killed, their name being posted in the thread at gamestart.
Mendel wrote:Also, I am assuming two wolves, no neutrals, or is that secret?
You are correct in there being 2 wolvsies and no neuts. The game is Open so there be no secrets (sides the hidden modifiers, but you at least know what they are).
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Mendel »

Game Start: Host Save (R0 target is perfectly fine, but is named as being attacked)
in the previous games I have played here , R0 occurred after the game started. Your procedure implies that the wolves knew their alignment before the villagers did, and I did not expect that.
Unfortunately, I believe pretty much any player (or any combination of two players) could've chosen me as R0 target, so I think this tells us nothing.

The quantum seer is the High Noon role (and it can't be me this round since I submitted that). If they're a wolf, they learned two roles, and could challenge one to try and get it out of the game.

If the wolf quantum seer peeks Gitaxian Probe, do they also learn which role was copied?
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Re: WW XXVIII: Custom Wolf 3.14

Post by Cruxell »

Mendel wrote:
Game Start: Host Save (R0 target is perfectly fine, but is named as being attacked)
in the previous games I have played here , R0 occurred after the game started. Your procedure implies that the wolves knew their alignment before the villagers did, and I did not expect that.
Unfortunately, I believe pretty much any player (or any combination of two players) could've chosen me as R0 target, so I think this tells us nothing.
Perhaps MMage handed out the roles to everybody at the same time, and contacted the wolves immediately after that to receive a target for the pseudo-hospitalization. A total of 34 minutes passed since the official start of the game and post #25. If this is what happened, then somebody who was active on Discord at the start of the game can easily be a wolf. So, clearly not me.
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