Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Waffle »

FNC QuErza! wrote:wait wait since when does someone with low activity on forums and 0 reports get accepted?
<-- This guy :D
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Macho Man »

that was like 10 years ago waffle
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by cuddly teddy bear »

i just came here to say congrats to the people accepted and thanks for fixing the maps kakao but ok
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Flath »

Additionnal notes:

*We decided to let the whole jail team deal with applications when Flath went to vacation and when Joel was promoted to the admin team as we are not able to deal with basic day-to-day work for a whole month.
*Since the admin team is active, we decided to go back on our words regarding the co-leader member position making the relations between the admin team and the member team further than ever.
*Since the admin team is active, we decided to go back on our words regarding a team wide meeting.
*We decided to host member meetings on discord hitting two birds with one stone as it is easier to participate as an admin in those meetings & as we do no longer have to post the logs of the member meeting.
*We updated the way members were supposed to act ingame ban wise and have more transparency about what is happening in-game now.
*We decided that the amx_csay will be added for members.
*We decided not to make any change regarding the Freeday rule gameplay wise on Jailbreak when brought up in a member meeting as it would make things more confusing for everyone.

To sum up things, we now have a firmer control over the member team making them unable to work in proper conditions ingame as the load of things they now have to do has been increased exponentially compared to what was required before, making sure that the future requirements of members are as low as they can be while the work they can do is as high as they can deliver. We of course do not feel the need to offer more transparency regarding our own actions and meetings since it could impede our national sport which is the constant scoping we have on our precious playerbase.

To conclude, we are now able to keep our head high up in front of the community as a united team since most of the core-work required to run a community has been handed down to the member team.

LEFT:

* Flath has suprisingly left the member team.

The Admin team.

Thought you needed some real Additionnal notes, not just some map changes noone cares about. Most of the information i gave do not concern the tech admins who have done an amazing job over the past years. I would like to thank the admin team from one year ago for accepting me back into the team but i can't cope with the way nD is heading right now and some of the people in charge.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by JTc »

Flath wrote:Additionnal notes:

*We decided to let the whole jail team deal with applications when Flath went to vacation and when Joel was promoted to the admin team as we are not able to deal with basic day-to-day work for a whole month.
*Since the admin team is active, we decided to go back on our words regarding the co-leader member position making the relations between the admin team and the member team further than ever.
*Since the admin team is active, we decided to go back on our words regarding a team wide meeting.
*We decided to host member meetings on discord hitting two birds with one stone as it is easier to participate as an admin in those meetings & as we do no longer have to post the logs of the member meeting.
*We updated the way members were supposed to act ingame ban wise and have more transparency about what is happening in-game now.
*We decided that the amx_csay will be added for members.
*We decided not to make any change regarding the Freeday rule gameplay wise on Jailbreak when brought up in a member meeting as it would make things more confusing for everyone.

To sum up things, we now have a firmer control over the member team making them unable to work in proper conditions ingame as the load of things they now have to do has been increased exponentially compared to what was required before, making sure that the future requirements of members are as low as they can be while the work they can do is as high as they can deliver. We of course do not feel the need to offer more transparency regarding our own actions and meetings since it could impede our national sport which is the constant scoping we have on our precious playerbase.

To conclude, we are now able to keep our head high up in front of the community as a united team since most of the core-work required to run a community has been handed down to the member team.

LEFT:

* Flath has suprisingly left the member team.

The Admin team.

Thought you needed some real Additionnal notes, not just some map changes noone cares about. Most of the information i gave do not concern the tech admins who have done an amazing job over the past years. I would like to thank the admin team from one year ago for accepting me back into the team but i can't cope with the way nD is heading right now and some of the people in charge.
ayy lmao, you guys should hire flath for future admin meetings, so he can write up the notes.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Gotouda Aki »

Flath wrote:Additionnal notes:

*We decided to let the whole jail team deal with applications when Flath went to vacation and when Joel was promoted to the admin team as we are not able to deal with basic day-to-day work for a whole month.
*Since the admin team is active, we decided to go back on our words regarding the co-leader member position making the relations between the admin team and the member team further than ever.
*Since the admin team is active, we decided to go back on our words regarding a team wide meeting.
*We decided to host member meetings on discord hitting two birds with one stone as it is easier to participate as an admin in those meetings & as we do no longer have to post the logs of the member meeting.
*We updated the way members were supposed to act ingame ban wise and have more transparency about what is happening in-game now.
*We decided that the amx_csay will be added for members.
*We decided not to make any change regarding the Freeday rule gameplay wise on Jailbreak when brought up in a member meeting as it would make things more confusing for everyone.
1: The JB moderators are moderators because they know the rules. Not everyone has access, only those who asked if they could take care of CT applications.
2: This position was made because of lack of presence from the admin team. We're not fully back and I do feel like it could be a usefull position to make, but we currently lack members with enough respect, composure, activity and willingness to fill this position.
Not saying there aren't capable members, but we need all 4 points consistently. We do have 1 member we thought about giving this position, but he went inactive and only recently came back.
3: We wanted to do the team wide meeting, but the guy in charge of it is slow at taking action there. Perhaps the others of us should just do it anyway and get it done. But to be fair, we barely got any players in the other teams, so a JB meeting should be sufficient for this case.
4: You're welcome to host it anywhere else, but it's much easier to respond and communicate on Discord, than f.ex on Steam (also because sometimes steam groups bugs and you don't get invites) the chat is also saved in the history on Discord, so it's easy to look up.
5: We didn't update anything here, we just bumped the way it used to be. It was a method that has always been supposed to be followed, but forgotten over the years. So we didn't update anything, we just reminded everyone of how it should be done.
6: amx_csay, unstuck (for games etc) and the reset for ball, has been added to the moderator menu.
7: The rules for the JB server has been the same for several years, making such a drastic change could cause a lot of confusion and problems and give even more work to the moderators. There's several ways to end the freeday early. Such as leaving the gunroom, rebelling, asking if T's want to end the freeday, etc.
It's just part of the game and it's up to the players themselves to rebel and get killed early on in the round, having to wait for the rest. It's not ideal, but freedays would pretty much continue to be a problem and changing the rules would just make more problems and more work to constantly keep an eye on.

I don't understand your negativity upon these decisions. A lot of things both seem good and bad when you just look at the headline, but if you go deeper into them you start to understand why we make these decisions.
The admin team doesn't make decisions just to make things easier for themselves and make things harder for the moderators. We try to make things better and improve the community.
It was great that the JB members had the meeting and decided on these things, I think it's a great thing to do and it could improve the community a lot. They also got to argue and speak up about things they wanted added.
Hence why the unstuck, amx_csay and reset ball command was added.

Also, if anyone from the other team wants changes, they can come to us with them and we can bring them forth.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by doeda »

Gotouda Aki wrote:I don't understand your negativity upon these decisions. A lot of things both seem good and bad when you just look at the headline, but if you go deeper into them you start to understand why we make these decisions.
The admin team doesn't make decisions just to make things easier for themselves and make things harder for the moderators. We try to make things better and improve the community.
I think the issue with Flath here is that it's built up and not only these decisions you have made.
Gotouda Aki wrote:5: We didn't update anything here, we just bumped the way it used to be. It was a method that has always been supposed to be followed, but forgotten over the years. So we didn't update anything, we just reminded everyone of how it should be done.
What I don't get, is why bump something that is new to us "members" if it was fine the way it was before? to be honest it feels as though members and admins are just not cooperating anymore instead we are getting more and more apart from each other.
Gotouda Aki wrote:2: This position was made because of lack of presence from the admin team. We're not fully back and I do feel like it could be a usefull position to make, but we currently lack members with enough respect, composure, activity and willingness to fill this position.
Not saying there aren't capable members, but we need all 4 points consistently. We do have 1 member we thought about giving this position, but he went inactive and only recently came back.
You and Leon are the only admins that is "fairly" active these days, apart from the admins that are coding and handling stuff in the background (I hope?) So I don't see why admins don't have an minimum requirement amount of hours per month too, it's not like you are different human beings than us we all got real life too. And also it's give and take respect back you can't expect respect from the member team only and get nothing/ less back from the admin team, I'm getting more complaints about admins not responding back to our members so I think it's best to stop pointing fingers to the member every damn time and to take a look in the mirror as you are no different than us.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Gotouda Aki »

I can't say much to things build up. I try to solve issues when they come and give feedback once they've been discussed and done.

To the second point. The moderating style wasn't working. I've had several complaints about players being unfairly treated and when then looking into it, there's no proof behind those decisions. And other than that, the ban tool was overused. It's not supposed to be used as much as it was and overall the style has just become much more "use powers" instead of "teaching players".
And members complain that there's not enough reports coming from members and 1 of those reasons is because everytime an issue comes up, it's either kick, slay, ban without any proof. Meaning members punish players without taking proof, so they cannot report them and then complain if the players doesn't get striked.

I was not talking about respect between admin and member. I'm talking about overall respect member to member.
In terms of activity, yes we should be more active in-game. But a huge majority of our work is forum based, so our work constantly draws us to the forum, while a members job draws them in-game.
Of course a lot of you are active on the forum and do a lot of work there. But the difference is still great.
It's not ideal, not at all. But we have to consider the tasks given. Which is why the most of a members job is in-game and the most of an admins job is on the forum.

And I'm not trying to be all defensive towards the admins. A lot seem to forget, that I think most of us admins used to be members too and when I was a member I was like "Come on admins, wtf? Be more active in-game, this is bullshit". But then I got admin and I was like "Okay, now I get why your activity is so low". Simply because of the amount of work that gets loaded on you every time you open up Steam, Discord and especially the forum.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Macho Man »

so much text someone make a shorter version with one sentence.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by doeda »

Gotouda Aki wrote:I can't say much to things build up. I try to solve issues when they come and give feedback once they've been discussed and done.

To the second point. The moderating style wasn't working. I've had several complaints about players being unfairly treated and when then looking into it, there's no proof behind those decisions. And other than that, the ban tool was overused. It's not supposed to be used as much as it was and overall the style has just become much more "use powers" instead of "teaching players".
And members complain that there's not enough reports coming from members and 1 of those reasons is because everytime an issue comes up, it's either kick, slay, ban without any proof. Meaning members punish players without taking proof, so they cannot report them and then complain if the players doesn't get striked.

I was not talking about respect between admin and member. I'm talking about overall respect member to member.
In terms of activity, yes we should be more active in-game. But a huge majority of our work is forum based, so our work constantly draws us to the forum, while a members job draws them in-game.
Of course a lot of you are active on the forum and do a lot of work there. But the difference is still great.
It's not ideal, not at all. But we have to consider the tasks given. Which is why the most of a members job is in-game and the most of an admins job is on the forum.

And I'm not trying to be all defensive towards the admins. A lot seem to forget, that I think most of us admins used to be members too and when I was a member I was like "Come on admins, wtf? Be more active in-game, this is bullshit". But then I got admin and I was like "Okay, now I get why your activity is so low". Simply because of the amount of work that gets loaded on you every time you open up Steam, Discord and especially the forum.
Fair enough.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Flath »

Gotouda Aki wrote:I can't say much to things build up. I try to solve issues when they come and give feedback once they've been discussed and done.

To the second point. The moderating style wasn't working. I've had several complaints about players being unfairly treated and when then looking into it, there's no proof behind those decisions. And other than that, the ban tool was overused. It's not supposed to be used as much as it was and overall the style has just become much more "use powers" instead of "teaching players".
In another thread you were deciding to take firmer actions towards
You lot (the trollers and troublemakers of this community)
but now you are saying members are being too heavy-handed. That's a bit of a contradiction isn't it ? You are basically saying members shouldn't moderate your friends while you yourself destroy people you dislike just like a dictator. Not to mention you are a massive hypocrite silencing people who criticize you for no reason at all once again just like a freaking dictator.

Now just to have some confirmation about how biased you are concerning people, could you plz give a proper explanation as to why Kaito who has been an example of good manners in the past year ingame helping moderators whenever there was a tricky situation and managing to control himself to the best of his extent on forum has just been labelled as a "troll" conveniently when he criticizes your work on another topic that has just been locked by you. If you look at his posts on the forum you will see that there is more positive elements that you can argue about: The times he has been crossing the line, he got punished harshly for it and i'm the harsh one here.

His status moved down from a regular with some really accurate posts to a guy who now needs the admin confirmation in other word your confirmation in order to post something just like how a dictator would act shutting down anyone against him. So while i would have no issue with this if another admin was handling this kind of delicate system, i really have some concerns regarding you being able to deal with this kind of power.

I'm not even talking about your petty tries of kicking me out of the team and the fact you yourself admitted repeatedly you didn't have enough powers in this community to deal with things the way they should.

You are for example talking about composure when you yourself lack this key aspect. Enjoy.

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Edit : I forgot to add the several "several complaints" argument you have been adding whenever you dealt with someone. This was the case with me, it was the case with Schlumpf that you banned for 36 hours without a single freaking proof for vip abusing. And i don't doubt you still use this argument to proove your point with your fellow admins taking out Voropoulo who is conveniently agreeing on whatever you are saying.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Gotouda Aki »

The first point: Taking the right actions is what should be done. I never stated you should ignore players. But there's a certain type of group of players in this community who has caused problems over the years consistently.
Taking actions towards these type of group of players is required, because it influence our community and have a hugely negative impact.
I've seen many players behave very poorly and break the rules, later to find out they were friends with players from that type of group.

About KaitoKid: Although KaitoKid didn't break any major rules this time, he has consistently created harassive and hateful posts over the years and been punished for it before. He then continues to do this and cause more and more problems, also creating a bad atmosphere in the overall community.
He does often have a good point in a lot of what he says, but he tends to phrase it in a really angry and hateful way. Which is why he was put in that group.

Breaking the rules on the forum and breaking rules in-game are both connected and seperate. If you get a strike in-game or on the forum, you don't get it in the other, but if you get f.ex permbanned in-game and then harasses and behave really poorly on the forum, you can have your unban request declined, etc.

I do admit I crossed the line several times when I wrote to you and I shouldn't have done that.
The reason behind it was because I kept on making a point which you for some reason didn't understand one bit and I was quite frankly surprised that you were unable to understand it and it made me frustrated.
And when I then asked you about it again, you said you wouldn't reply, because I had earlier said "end of discussion". And you used that argument against me, but only proved I was right since you refused to answer it.
We were talking about the arabic sentences being used. You have some experience with arabic and Point understand it fully. You kept on saying that I should trust you and not him when it came to this and you couldn't understand why I chose to trust him.

And to the Schlumpf one, yeah it was a mistake. And he was unbanned later by Patrick and I think I apologized to Schlump, not sure.
If I make a mistake, I'm not one to keep to it and say it's right. I apologize. If I think I'm doing something right however, I'm not going to stand down just because others pressure me, I stand my ground and I fight for my cause.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Lien~ »

With all due respect, I feel as though we're going way off track here. The original discussion has now led to a shitstorm of unneeded negative attention towards admins, members and regulars. As I've dealt with all of this before, I do not feel the need to get myself involved this time. However, I'd very much appreciate if people could at least show some respect whilst bashing others.

It's fine pointing fingers, after all this is a discussion topic and as far as I'm aware we're all mature here and should be able to maintain a proper argument, without being disrespectful to one another. But throwing in insults, showing negative attitude from one to the other, and making it so that it ends in frustrated replies back and forth will not do any of us any good. So take a chill pill, and then come back to this topic. The last thing we need is people arguing endlessly, over something that has happened either ages ago, or happened in private where half the story isn't being told.

That said, try to keep it going in a somewhat friendlier manner.

Thanks!

~~~~~~~~~

A bit shocked to see Flath go. As said in my PM that I sent you earlier, we didn't always get along but I've always respected you. I wish you the best of luck, thanks for all you've done and I hope to keep seeing you around. You've made some pretty good points over the years, and I genuinely believe that some can learn from your way of looking at things/handling certain situations.
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Re: Admin Meeting Outcome 12-08-2017

Post by Dee Dee »

Omg Flath! :/

Tbh I will never understand why Nai handled issues with Flath when you guys are clearly incapable of reaching any sort of agreement. In fact, both of you are already in a defensive attitude from the very beginning of the conversation.
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