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#166 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Lynching Leo is the best option we have right now villagers, don't be fooled by the mafia.


Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:01 am
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#167 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
And still waiting for any counter-claims... I have 1 HM claim and we all know that Emziek publicly claimed to be a Journalist. If you are the real one for either of roles, please send me a PM. Don't do it publicly as it might get you killed.


Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:40 am
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#168 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Ultor wrote:
Lynching Leo is the best option we have right now villagers, don't be fooled by the mafia.


Honestly don't know who tricked you so hardly, that you still believe im mafia..you should look at one point if i would be mafia why no one of that living mates, if im not wrong for an example me mafia, so 3 more left...and no one didn't tried to help me with any post to deffend me and let me stay allive. It is like all the games before i Need to deffend myself if smart calculating and analysing guys go with a vote on me and if you look in the other games i played, i was the one that tried allways to get the village town together that we have a chance to win that game and don't lynch vote all the time villagers. I almost had to deffend myself (allone) and no one trusted me at any time and you can look what i flipped then, right i've been villager !!!

In the last game i claimed to be the deputy = assisent of the cop and no one else claimed my role so it was obvisiouly that i have that role. All hold on the opinion what Crispo mentioned as cop that he peeked me and that i was suspicious...but only Konijn saw that there were roles what can fake my allignment. But it was for all unlikely that it can be...and guess again what came out, right i was villager = the deputy i claimed.

Now you are so biased if i just told you i don't wanna vote Lien and that for the fact that i know shit from her for what team she plays...i only deffended her that it can be true that she is to busy with much work and that i saw she handled all member applications. And if im a teamplayer and not like maybe many others that look only for their own to stay allive, then it is normal for me that i risk to get lynch voted and die, what better for the town is if im a normal villager and she "maybe" a villager with a power role. And on no place there was any evidence that she must be mafia...but you tried to tell me all the time she must be mafia and if not then i would stay allive as villager too and it wouldn't matter then. As i said it to choose the option that i vote on her and she flips village was to risky for me.

1) i don't vote on the ones on who i have no thoughts or suspicious move seen..you and SiX chose that she play the same gameplay like all the games before...that let me think or believe that you work a bit to tight with SiX together, because you never played any game with Lien before, you only agreed in one of your post that she play the same gameplay..LOL how would you know that if she play the first game with you too???
2) if she is villager and you lied or your thoughts been wrong that it would be the best move from me to vote on her for self preservation and if i had done it and it comes out she is villager i would never ever get any trust from my other villager mates that im one of them if i suddenly changed my vote then on her. And that at the time i had pressure on myself with votes on me that can lead to get me lynched.
3) As i said it now many times, i play an other style, maybe for many to aggressiv as a villager but idc to be honest...i know i risk to die earlier in the game for that aggresive style, but i wanna win the game and if im dead and village town wins it is a Victory for me too.

I see it as i mentioned it the game before...if i play CS and it is for an example de_dust2, i rush then bomb place b and hope i get 2,3,4 killed and the rest of my team get the chance to plant the bomb and protect the bomb to the end of the round then.

Don't feel offended by me bruh but you are more the player that would like to win and survive allone to get all eyes on him and stand in the centerview of all to get seen as the hero who survived and killed all allone.
I saw that gameplay from you many times in JB where you risked more to accidently freekill one (not on purpose), only to show that you had 20 terrorists under control and no one rebelled or get the chance to kill you.

That i said only to show your kind of gameplay and why you would vote on Lien to stay allive and im not if i think or that i can't be sure that she is not villager with an important power role. Dont feel pls offended by me Ultor it is just a game and i still like you ;)

@POOO
It looks a bit for me that Ultor convinced you later on steam that he must be village..but your post they must be villagers = SiX and Ultor because they defend themselves, they really want to survive and win the game is a bit meh for me.
If you would look clearly to Emzieks post you would see that he claimed to be the jounalist and no one else did it. So he is at the Moment the one we should follow and believe in that he is a proven villager. And if you re read a lot Ultor was most of the times sure he must be mafia and that after his Journalist claiming too and that if no one showed that Emziek must lie.
Look on the Point POOO why should Emziek Claim his role and risk that the "real Journalist" comes and say he lies? and no one did it, don't forget that.
Same suspect move from Ultor is he said he have evidences which he wanna show in the next round...read a bit more what all other mentioned, we wont get a next round if the next villager get lynched and to show it next round and not yet where we villagers need it is a bit ridiculous, you don't think so???
I can only advice you to believe for now that Emziek is who he claimed to be and go with your vote on Ish as it is obvisiouly after his peek on him. If he Flips villager you can be sure Emziek or me or whoever must be mafia...but sure ii is the same Scenario if Ish flips village and Emziek lied there is no next round too...but for me i believe more in the post by Emziek = Journalist claim !!! You can choose by yourself who you wanna believe more, but if you dont follow Emziek be sure that you must be a mafia guy for me too if you follow Ultor and SiX so clearly and that with no given evidences. No one of them can have a power role that can give you a real evidence. None of them can peek, this peeking role have only the Journalist.

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Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:47 am
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#169 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Another note from me is that POOO is suddenly mostly no where catchable to have a talk with..he is on at forum but didn't respond on CB or isn't on at Steam...What is a bit ridiculous from me but can be a move from him to hide as mafia.
I saw him everytime on at steam too if he was on at the Forum..but now not...hmmh maybe a coincidence..who knows it.

I edited this post after i saw he is on in the mafia forum here...and that is right now !!!
So maybe you wanna say somethin more now to the game or your thoughts, why Ultor and SiX sounds more villager than Emziek or me???

And the longer you wait to respond, the more i get the feeling you need Ultor who tells you what you should type :)

This i made only for the other to show he was on http://imgur.com/bMAzSzv, but also wanna mention that Poo finally contacted me on steam...im sure Ultor is not far away from him :P

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Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:04 am
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#170 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Spoiler: show
Ruski: Don't you think Ish is mafia?
Ultor: im not sure about Ish
Ruski: or you're trying to save him by lynching leo? :D
Ultor: lol
Ultor: if u isolate my posts you will see why im lynching leo
Ultor: have a look on screenshots between me and him lol
Ruski: ye I get it
Ruski: but how I understand is that mafia are playing a tricky game
Ultor: brb toliet
Ruski: acting as villager and blaming their teammate as mafia
Ultor is now Online.
Ultor: ok back
Ruski: so how was toilet
Ruski: lulz
Ultor: very good
Ruski: well
Ruski: If you trick me this time
Ultor: anyway the mafia could actually be sacraficing one of their own
Ruski: you are tricking a new player
Ultor: lol
Ruski: so villagers don't lose an important player
Ruski: but if I get shot
Ruski: you know you will be lynched
Ruski: that's how I see it
Ruski: for now
Ruski: I need to see who gets killed next round
Ultor: wait so u are a vanilla villager?
Ruski: you know why I think leo is not the mafia?
Ruski: he voted for earlier gray
Ruski: and someone shot earliergray
Ruski: to trap him
Ultor: leo changed his vote to no lynch
Ultor: before gray got shot
Ruski: why was he voting eg?
Ruski: afk?
Ultor: he was acting like a villager by voting afks
Ruski: True
Ruski: He kept on changing votes to afks
Ultor: i already know who the HM is
Ruski: he was so desperate
Ruski: to get rid of the villagers
Ultor: but if anyone counter-claims his role that would be good
Ruski: what do you mean
Ruski: sorry I am new to this term
Ultor: someone told me that they are the hotel manager
Ruski: But I am pretty sure if I vote leo, I am getting shot tonight :D
Ultor: however if someone else says the same thinig
Ultor: then we know that 1 of them is the mafia
Ultor: getting shot doesnt matter
Ultor: its all about getting the mafia and the SK
Ruski: who claims to be hotel manager?
Ultor: u wont be shot, it will be me
Ultor: i wont tell you that
Ruski: HATER?
Ruski: Well
Ruski: you saw my post?
Ruski: Hater, Ish, Leo
Ruski: 2 of these 3 are mafia
Ruski: But I can't be 100% sure
Ultor: could be just 1
Ruski: until someone gets shot tonight
Ultor: HATER could be the SK
Ruski: for me its 2 of these
Ruski: SK?
Ruski: Janitor?
Ultor: yes
Ruski: well ye
Ultor: Emziek could be the real Journalist too
Ultor: so if no1 counter-claims his role
Ruski: Emziek was shot
Ruski: wasnt he?
Ruski: and he survived
Ultor: I might announce few things
Ultor: yes he was saved by the doc
Ruski: So he isnt mafia
Ultor: why not?
Ruski: Mafia shoots mafia?
Ruski: is bait play allowed?!
Ultor: anything is allowed
Ultor: but it wasnt that
Ultor: it was because the mafia wanted to shoot another room and it probably got switched by the Janitor
Ultor: and the doc didnt mean to protect Journalist
Ultor: i mean Emziek
Ultor: room swaps happen before doc protection
Ruski: Well this gets confusing
Ruski: but yeah, I think you are right about Hater
Ruski: he seems to be the janitor
Ultor: so who are u gonna vote for?
Ruski: This round, none.
Ruski: Next round, Ish or Leo
Ruski: wops
Ruski: not Ish
Ruski: because he is getting lynched (probably)
Ruski: I will vote leo or hater
Ruski: wait
Ruski: what about programma
Ruski: havent seen him participate much
Ultor: so you're a mafia then?
Ruski: Do I talk like I am?
Ruski: lol
Ultor: yes lol
Ruski: welp
Ultor: as a villager, you need to vote
Ultor: if u dont vote its game over
Ruski: I am not voting this round, I might be wrong.
Ultor: so what if u are wrong
Ruski: We would have lost too many villagers then
Ruski: 4 are already lost
Ultor: that doesnt make sense
Ultor: there is 1 lynch
Ultor: if u vote or not, someone will die because of this lynch
Ruski: Well, I am staying on no lynch
Ruski: brb
Ultor: ok
Ruski: so
Ruski: what do you think of six btw
Ultor: for now I think hes a villager
Ultor: but he could also be the SK
Ruski: he isnt SK for sure
Ruski: Or nvm
Ultor: how do u know?
Ruski: he could be
Ruski: Isnt speaking so much
Ultor: lol
Ruski: so he is probably trying to defend his identity
Ultor: have u read his posts?
Ruski: and just being silent so he doesn't get voted or shot
Ruski: he only posted 3 times
Ruski: lol
Ultor: SiX?
Ruski: Oh
Ruski: I was talking about programma
Ruski: wops
Ruski: About six, its very hard to say for now
Ruski: but I believe he is a villager
Ultor: lol why are u thinking about afks
Ruski: he isnt afk
Ruski: he is checking the topic daily
Ultor: he only posted twice
Ruski: yes I know
Ultor: that makes him afk
Ruski: but he is checking the topic
Ultor: yeah everyone checks it
Ultor: afk in this game means
Ruski: I understand
Ultor: you're not active
Ruski: why dont we vote programma
Ultor: if we dont lynch a mafia this round, its over
Ultor: why should we vote on him?
Ruski: Checking topic, but not saying anything
Ruski: He seems to be fine with whats happening
Ruski: people getting lynched
Ultor: lol thats not a good reason
Ruski: well who knows
Ultor: he can just say im bussy
Ruski: brb
Ultor: im wondering, why are u denying the fact that Leo is a mafia
Ruski: I am not denying
Ruski: I am saying I cant be sure at this point
Ruski: lemme read your posts vs his
Ruski: gimme 10 mins
Ruski: lawliet was villager?
Ultor: ok
Ultor: yes lawliet was villager
Ruski: So leo knows I am talking to you
Ultor: i dont think so
Ultor: he thinks im trying to brainwash you
Ultor: I've found another mafia
Ruski: who
Ultor: You
Ruski: well I explained :D
Ruski: Whatever you think
Ultor: :)
Ultor: can i ask u a q?
Ruski: sure
Ultor: what do u think of SiX and Lien?
Ruski: SiX villager
Ruski: Lien mhm
Ruski: not so sure
Ruski: but imo she could be mafia
Ultor: cool
Ultor: and ko9?
Ruski: HM

This was the chat between me and ultor. I like how he is pointing fingers on others and trying to get along, I got pretty confused for a moment. What made me think Ultor is a mafia was that he is trying to get Leo lynched while Ish was peeked and declared mafia by someone (and he still continued on voting leo, makes me wonder why he wouldn't vote on Ish, probably to save his mafia mate?). This pretty much shows ultor is playing the trick game, trying to convince other by words and not talking about Ish at all except for his analysis part. I have changed my mind.
[vote Ultor]
Also, if I get shot and ultor is proven innocent later then its Leo for sure. Can't seem to trust anyone at this point.


Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:22 am
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#171 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
POOOOO wrote:
Spoiler: show
Ruski: Don't you think Ish is mafia?
Ultor: im not sure about Ish
Ruski: or you're trying to save him by lynching leo? :D
Ultor: lol
Ultor: if u isolate my posts you will see why im lynching leo
Ultor: have a look on screenshots between me and him lol
Ruski: ye I get it
Ruski: but how I understand is that mafia are playing a tricky game
Ultor: brb toliet
Ruski: acting as villager and blaming their teammate as mafia
Ultor is now Online.
Ultor: ok back
Ruski: so how was toilet
Ruski: lulz
Ultor: very good
Ruski: well
Ruski: If you trick me this time
Ultor: anyway the mafia could actually be sacraficing one of their own
Ruski: you are tricking a new player
Ultor: lol
Ruski: so villagers don't lose an important player
Ruski: but if I get shot
Ruski: you know you will be lynched
Ruski: that's how I see it
Ruski: for now
Ruski: I need to see who gets killed next round
Ultor: wait so u are a vanilla villager?
Ruski: you know why I think leo is not the mafia?
Ruski: he voted for earlier gray
Ruski: and someone shot earliergray
Ruski: to trap him
Ultor: leo changed his vote to no lynch
Ultor: before gray got shot
Ruski: why was he voting eg?
Ruski: afk?
Ultor: he was acting like a villager by voting afks
Ruski: True
Ruski: He kept on changing votes to afks
Ultor: i already know who the HM is
Ruski: he was so desperate
Ruski: to get rid of the villagers
Ultor: but if anyone counter-claims his role that would be good
Ruski: what do you mean
Ruski: sorry I am new to this term
Ultor: someone told me that they are the hotel manager
Ruski: But I am pretty sure if I vote leo, I am getting shot tonight :D
Ultor: however if someone else says the same thinig
Ultor: then we know that 1 of them is the mafia
Ultor: getting shot doesnt matter
Ultor: its all about getting the mafia and the SK
Ruski: who claims to be hotel manager?
Ultor: u wont be shot, it will be me
Ultor: i wont tell you that
Ruski: HATER?
Ruski: Well
Ruski: you saw my post?
Ruski: Hater, Ish, Leo
Ruski: 2 of these 3 are mafia
Ruski: But I can't be 100% sure
Ultor: could be just 1
Ruski: until someone gets shot tonight
Ultor: HATER could be the SK
Ruski: for me its 2 of these
Ruski: SK?
Ruski: Janitor?
Ultor: yes
Ruski: well ye
Ultor: Emziek could be the real Journalist too
Ultor: so if no1 counter-claims his role
Ruski: Emziek was shot
Ruski: wasnt he?
Ruski: and he survived
Ultor: I might announce few things
Ultor: yes he was saved by the doc
Ruski: So he isnt mafia
Ultor: why not?
Ruski: Mafia shoots mafia?
Ruski: is bait play allowed?!
Ultor: anything is allowed
Ultor: but it wasnt that
Ultor: it was because the mafia wanted to shoot another room and it probably got switched by the Janitor
Ultor: and the doc didnt mean to protect Journalist
Ultor: i mean Emziek
Ultor: room swaps happen before doc protection
Ruski: Well this gets confusing
Ruski: but yeah, I think you are right about Hater
Ruski: he seems to be the janitor
Ultor: so who are u gonna vote for?
Ruski: This round, none.
Ruski: Next round, Ish or Leo
Ruski: wops
Ruski: not Ish
Ruski: because he is getting lynched (probably)
Ruski: I will vote leo or hater
Ruski: wait
Ruski: what about programma
Ruski: havent seen him participate much
Ultor: so you're a mafia then?
Ruski: Do I talk like I am?
Ruski: lol
Ultor: yes lol
Ruski: welp
Ultor: as a villager, you need to vote
Ultor: if u dont vote its game over
Ruski: I am not voting this round, I might be wrong.
Ultor: so what if u are wrong
Ruski: We would have lost too many villagers then
Ruski: 4 are already lost
Ultor: that doesnt make sense
Ultor: there is 1 lynch
Ultor: if u vote or not, someone will die because of this lynch
Ruski: Well, I am staying on no lynch
Ruski: brb
Ultor: ok
Ruski: so
Ruski: what do you think of six btw
Ultor: for now I think hes a villager
Ultor: but he could also be the SK
Ruski: he isnt SK for sure
Ruski: Or nvm
Ultor: how do u know?
Ruski: he could be
Ruski: Isnt speaking so much
Ultor: lol
Ruski: so he is probably trying to defend his identity
Ultor: have u read his posts?
Ruski: and just being silent so he doesn't get voted or shot
Ruski: he only posted 3 times
Ruski: lol
Ultor: SiX?
Ruski: Oh
Ruski: I was talking about programma
Ruski: wops
Ruski: About six, its very hard to say for now
Ruski: but I believe he is a villager
Ultor: lol why are u thinking about afks
Ruski: he isnt afk
Ruski: he is checking the topic daily
Ultor: he only posted twice
Ruski: yes I know
Ultor: that makes him afk
Ruski: but he is checking the topic
Ultor: yeah everyone checks it
Ultor: afk in this game means
Ruski: I understand
Ultor: you're not active
Ruski: why dont we vote programma
Ultor: if we dont lynch a mafia this round, its over
Ultor: why should we vote on him?
Ruski: Checking topic, but not saying anything
Ruski: He seems to be fine with whats happening
Ruski: people getting lynched
Ultor: lol thats not a good reason
Ruski: well who knows
Ultor: he can just say im bussy
Ruski: brb
Ultor: im wondering, why are u denying the fact that Leo is a mafia
Ruski: I am not denying
Ruski: I am saying I cant be sure at this point
Ruski: lemme read your posts vs his
Ruski: gimme 10 mins
Ruski: lawliet was villager?
Ultor: ok
Ultor: yes lawliet was villager
Ruski: So leo knows I am talking to you
Ultor: i dont think so
Ultor: he thinks im trying to brainwash you
Ultor: I've found another mafia
Ruski: who
Ultor: You
Ruski: well I explained :D
Ruski: Whatever you think
Ultor: :)
Ultor: can i ask u a q?
Ruski: sure
Ultor: what do u think of SiX and Lien?
Ruski: SiX villager
Ruski: Lien mhm
Ruski: not so sure
Ruski: but imo she could be mafia
Ultor: cool
Ultor: and ko9?
Ruski: HM

This was the chat between me and ultor. I like how he is pointing fingers on others and trying to get along, I got pretty confused for a moment. What made me think Ultor is a mafia was that he is trying to get Leo lynched while Ish was peeked and declared mafia by someone (and he still continued on voting leo, makes me wonder why he wouldn't vote on Ish, probably to save his mafia mate?). This pretty much shows ultor is playing the trick game, trying to convince other by words and not talking about Ish at all except for his analysis part. I have changed my mind.
[vote Ultor]
Also, if I get shot and ultor is proven innocent later then its Leo for sure. Can't seem to trust anyone at this point.


This chat only proves few things:

1. The fact that you're not voting anyone this round to clear suspicion from yourself.
2. The fact that you are defending SiX based on a "gut feeling".
3. The fact that you're trying to redirect attention from those possible mafia to AFKs. Trying to save your teammates.

At this point, I've concluded that based on Emziek's claim as a Journalist, I will [vote Ish] for now, unless I get any counter-claims. I will withdraw this "definite proof" of Emziek being a mafia.

Remember that I still have a HM claim. The person who claimed that to me could be a fake and might aswell be the SK. This is why its extremely important to receive any claims. I am a villager and I am on your side.

@Leo
According to some replies you posted you said:

Quote:
And it should show too that Ultor is completly wrong with his analysis. Well i would ask the HM to switch Emziek to an other room, but hey the HM is Ultor who think that Emziek is not trustable.


Quote:
Ultor's thoughts were with his analysis that Emziek must be mafia or that he looks like one and now Emziek claimed to be the Journalist and that was what i told Ultor per Steam too that i have the Feeling he is innocent and my gut feeling tells me he is more trustable then any other, sure Ultor you can be the HM i have no doubt on it but aslong no one peeked you it is not 100% sure.


Quote:
Ultor is still on the point that Emziek is mafia and that after Emziek revealed his role and no one else claimed to be the Journalist...so in my opinion Emziek is more proven to be the Journalist then Ultor claiming to be HM, what also can be but this claiming is also not 100% like he said it on Emziek. And his "I Show evidences next round" make no sense for me..the round can be over so he just need some guys that trust him and don't need to show his evidences and try to convince others that he is really the HM.


Don't panic Leo, take it easy. In the first 2 quotes, you said that I'm the HM. In the third quote you said that I'm trying to convince everyone that I'm the HM. There is a lot of contradictions going on with your posts Leo- it seems to me that you're really trying hard to defend yourself- if u were a village you wouldn't care about dying. If you honestly believe that I'm the HM then why are you lynching me? Even though Emziek told you not to.

It is obvious that POOOO and Leo are on the same team now and that's proved by their bandwagon on me. Took me long to get them to this stage. Anyhow, I am not the HM and honestly those 48 rounds ain't helping at all, there are still like 4 AFKs.

Here is an alignment list which I created based on the fact that Emziek is the real Journalist:

Red = definite mafia
Orange = possible mafia
Green = definite village
Blue = possible SK
Yellow = unknown

01: HATER
02: Konijn
03: Emziek
04: Pr0Gr4mm4
05: Ish
06: Ultor
07: PandAboYii
08: POOOOO
09: SiX
10: !!!*-Leo-*!!!
11: Lien~


Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:06 am
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#172 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
HATER wrote:
If you look back on my actual post, you'll see I gave my FoS for a gut feeling -- which was then nothing else -- simply a gut reaction. Nothing major yet, just something didn't feel right about you.

My feeling on the bandwagon for crispo was mostly unrelated for why I put the FoS on you.


It was mostly unrelated you say, but the most straight forward thinking would be to assume there was a connection (which you do not deny when you say mostly unrelated).

A = The bandwagon on CrisP0 is suspicious
B = Six votes for CrisP0
Therefore...
C = Six is suspicious (gut feeling).

You should realize that saying "just a gut feeling" is very vague when you clearly present that the entire bandwagon on CrisP0 is suspicious, a suspicious bandwagon on which Six votes, then that's no longer just a gut feeling. It's a connection.

HATER wrote:
The problem here is you're not using any logic, let alone my own -- you're simply jumbling together random straw man arguments. If you can't see that there's a distinct difference between your haphazard claims and my methodical refutations, then you're wayyy fucking thicker than I thought.


Using the most straight forward thinking, then no, there's no distinct difference. A suspicious bandwagon includes suspicious voters, therefore the voters are also suspicious. That's what you said prior to saying Six is suspicious based on an gut feeling. And that equation can be used AGAINST you. Why? Because this is a matter of subjectivity when it comes to reads. This was your take on the CrisP0 bandwagon. Now lets assume someone has a different opinion than you, and finds that the Ultor bandwagon is suspicious. In that matter, you would be the one suspicious for voting on Ultor. And that's why your logic is faulty. For the same reason you suspect someone else, you yourself can be suspected. And if you are a Town Member, then you should realize that the possibility of me being a town member also exists. But if you stubbornly pursue the logic of:

X and Y does the same thing
X is suspicious
Y is not.

Then you truly are a blockhead. The only way this would make sense if you are a Mafia member, trying to justify your reasons for suspecting someone, in this case me.

HATER wrote:
You trying to throw suspicion off of yourself by targeting me for a completely logical decision (e.g. voting for the person I suspected to be mafia more than crisp0) is the part that's illogical, then saying "he was bound to flip village" on one hand and switching sides and saying you obviously can't be faulted for voting for him because "you had no idea".


Listen HATER, I don't think it's that hard. I don't target you for making a completely logical decision when you decided to vote Ultor (someone you suspected more than CrisP0) over CrisP0. I'm targeting you for assuming your reads are universal. You seem to lack the ability to realize the word called "subjectivity" when it comes to reads. Not just me, but any town member, why do you think they decide to vote someone? The most straight forward answer is because they suspect them. But every town member do not vote on the same person. It's quite a mess with the town members being spread out all over, voting for different candidates. Some vote against the Mafia, some vote against their own. But what you do not seem to realize is that they vote with the same motive, because their subjective read swings a certain way. And in this area, we are the same. I voted for CrisP0, you voted for Ultor. The only difference is that CrisP0 flipped town. But shit like that happens. Now, lets assume you are a town member and Ultor got lynched, flipping town. Would that have made any difference? It doesn't naturally mean you are suspicious, or even Mafia. But you attempt to make it look that way, despite the fact that this could have happened to anyone. And that's why I fault your logic.

Yes, I say he was bound to flip village (which he was because he was given a town role), but that was unbeknownst to us. Yet you try to make a bird out of a feather regarding this. Not realizing that the R1 lynches are 90% of the times purely random, you try to hold me responsible for the death of CrisP0, with you having voted for someone else (Ultor), giving you the position of a "Haha Six, you voted for someone who died and flip Town. I, on the other hand, cannot be held responsible for that person's death. I was even against it, giving me a stronger position than you, which I'll use to have you lynched." - That's the logic I fault you for. No town member would do this, but you do. Either are you thus a blockhead who clearly overestimate yourself, or you are a Mafia /SK trying to take advantage of your position

HATER wrote:
[b]Futhermore -- my FoS was BEFORE crisp0 flipped and was for a different reason entirely at the time. Your FoS was based off of crisp0's flip after the fact and was based only on my vote.


Yes, it was before CrisP0 flipped Village. But assuming you are a Mafia, you would have known that CrisP0 was either a Town member or the SK. Trying to defend him in the topic would thus give you an advantageous position to argue from when you point fingers at others. The fact that it was prior to his death is irrelevant when his outcome was nearly certain, town.

-------------------------------------------------

And let me refute the coded part of your equation then, if it makes you happier.

HATER wrote:
#1: Vote Crisp0. Something wasn't quite right about the wagon on him, and I had a feeling he was a villager. I quite frankly just didn't feel comfortable voting for him. And as it turns out, he was indeed a villager -- so I was correct to not vote for him. Obviously voting for him would have made me suspicious (seeing as how


Something wasn't quite right about the wagon on CrisP0, and you had a feeling he was a villager. And you didn't feel comfortable voting for him, and it turned out he was a Villager. As such, you was correct not to vote for him, but to vote for someone more suspicious. That's what you are saying. But I've addressed this issue of yours in the earlier parts of this post, and that's your belief that your reads are somewhat objective and universal. Just because YOU did something, it doesn't mean everyone else, teammates alike, should do the same. But you expect they should, and anyone who dares to say or do elseway, will be on your FoS. But that logic doesn't work, do you know why? Because anyone could use it. Anyone could say that "if your reads aren't in alignment with mine, then you are suspicious" - and do you know what this would lead to? It would lead to you being suspected for the same reason you suspect someone else. It would be an infinite circle of people suspecting each other for not agreeing, until some people finally see 100% eye to eye. And that isn't Mafia. Mafia isn't that objective and universal. It's a subjective game and you should learn to leave more room for other people's thoughts.

HATER wrote:
#2: Vote Ultor. This is who I thought looked more suspicious, and this is who I ultimately ended up voting for. I needed to make a decision as to whom I suspected more, and Ultor came out on top. I can't see why I'm being faulted for this -- if I was really just a mafia looking to throw in a vote to look active, there were better options for me (see #4).


Once again, you are not faulted for voting Ultor. You are faulted for expecting me to vote Ultor. Don't you think everyone vote the people they find suspicious? You are not the only one. But expecting everyone who's town should vote the same person as you, now that's fucked up.

HATER wrote:
#3: Vote No Lynch. I hate voting no lynch round 1 -- it essentially gives the wolves a free kill. I have never encouraged this practice in any standard game I've ever been in (see: any of my previous walls of text on this topic in other games), and I don't intend to start now.


A point I finally agree with you on.

HATER wrote:
#4 Vote someone else/ not vote at all: neither of these things would do ANYTHING to change the outcome -- if I was truly a mafia (who would be happy about crisp0 getting lynched) I would be voting someone unrelated to this -- it makes me look active, doesn't generally piss off anyone, and keeps me in the game without changing the outcome of the lynch. THAT would be the best play as a mafia.


Yes, they wouldn't do anything to change the outcome. Then why do you fault me for keeping my vote on CrisP0? Based on your logic, the only other option would be to vote Ultor. You chose Ultor, I chose CrisP0. It's as simple as that.

HATER wrote:
I voted for the most suspicious person I saw based off of who was up for lynch

And you don't assume I did? And everyone else for that matter?

HATER wrote:
You've created a false dilemma, a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. And it's stunning that you don't realize that. If I vote for someone I think is a villager, I'm suspicious. If I vote the other guy who I think is more likely to be mafia, I'm suspicious. If I vote no lynch, the village gains no info. If I don't vote at all I'm afk. If I vote someone else entirely, sure I'm not suspicious, but I don't change anything!


You were the one to create that situation. If I voted for Ultor, who I thought to be a villager, I'm suspicious. if I vote for the other guy (CrisP0) who I thought was more likely to be a mafia, I am suspicious. If I vote no lynch, the village gains no info. If I don't vote at all I'm afk. If I vote someone else entirely, sure I'm not suspicious, but I don't change anything!

Your logic could be used against you all the time, and that's why your logic was flawed.

HATER wrote:
It seems that you're deliberately using faulty logic to try and implicate me -- perhaps to get me out of your way?

You clearly overestimate yourself. There wouldn't be a need for me to bother getting you out of my way. But the fact you do believe that, is nothing but arrogance.

HATER wrote:
[b][color=#00FF00]Of course you weren't Interested in voting me -- you didn't want to start a war you were sure to lose. Welp, I got news for ya buddy, you started it anyways.


Gosh. Were do I even begin? The reason I wasn't interested in voting for you, was because your logic was so hypocritical that it was astonishing. My FoS on you wasn't even a genuine FoS, it was pure sarcasm. And even if I lost the war against you, that would only matter if you are a Mafia or the Serial Killer. As a town member, whether or not you win the war against me, the outcome would be detrimental to the entire town faction. As such, a town member lynching a town member, isn't a win. It's a loss, both for the dead, as well as for the living. But if you are driven by a personal agenda to always appear victorious, then I assume that doesn't matter?

HATER wrote:
As I covered in my last post -- from that perspective, if I was a mafia and knew crisp0 would flip village, blah blah -- why the fuck would I even bother voting for ultor? I could have thrown my vote on Lien, Ish, you, or LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE that it couldn't matter on -- why would I risk someone else voting with me on Ultor and thus changing the outcome of the lynch and making me look guilty or killing a teammate (if ultor is village, I'd be one of the ones that killed him (and therefore somewhat suspicious), if ultor was mafia, I'd have killed one of my teammates). Either way, if I was mafia and someone else voted ultor after I voted,


You do realize you voted ultor about 1 hour prior to the round end when most of the players were offline? You wouldn't have had to worry about anyone changing their outcome. Rather, you could maintain the suspicion on both Ultor and the CrisP0 voters. But that's where your biggest flaw is. You didn't suspect the CrisP0 votes. You suspected me, one of 4 CrisP0 voters. To me, this looks as though you want to make enemies to lynch, but you don't want to make too many at the same time, because you realize the possibility of them ganging up on you exists. Which would backfire, resulting in you dying instead. But if you focus 1 player, you can attempt to lynch them.


Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:20 am
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#173 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Reading Emziek's claim, his subsequent posts where he backs up his position and defends himself against SiX, it seems to me to be the best decision right now to [vote Ish]

I'm a little reluctant to trust you though due to your excellent play as Mafia last game, if you turn out to be Mafia again this time I think you're gonna end up getting another MVP award >_>

Edit: P.S. Server running gerty was rebooted, I've restarted him now.

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#174 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Welp I guess that's my fate sealed, just lynch the Emziek when I flip village, as well as Leo and Lien. Then we should be sorted :). Hope you guys carry me.

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#175 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Ultor wrote:
POOOOO wrote:
Spoiler: show
Ruski: Don't you think Ish is mafia?
Ultor: im not sure about Ish
Ruski: or you're trying to save him by lynching leo? :D
Ultor: lol
Ultor: if u isolate my posts you will see why im lynching leo
Ultor: have a look on screenshots between me and him lol
Ruski: ye I get it
Ruski: but how I understand is that mafia are playing a tricky game
Ultor: brb toliet
Ruski: acting as villager and blaming their teammate as mafia
Ultor is now Online.
Ultor: ok back
Ruski: so how was toilet
Ruski: lulz
Ultor: very good
Ruski: well
Ruski: If you trick me this time
Ultor: anyway the mafia could actually be sacraficing one of their own
Ruski: you are tricking a new player
Ultor: lol
Ruski: so villagers don't lose an important player
Ruski: but if I get shot
Ruski: you know you will be lynched
Ruski: that's how I see it
Ruski: for now
Ruski: I need to see who gets killed next round
Ultor: wait so u are a vanilla villager?
Ruski: you know why I think leo is not the mafia?
Ruski: he voted for earlier gray
Ruski: and someone shot earliergray
Ruski: to trap him
Ultor: leo changed his vote to no lynch
Ultor: before gray got shot
Ruski: why was he voting eg?
Ruski: afk?
Ultor: he was acting like a villager by voting afks
Ruski: True
Ruski: He kept on changing votes to afks
Ultor: i already know who the HM is
Ruski: he was so desperate
Ruski: to get rid of the villagers
Ultor: but if anyone counter-claims his role that would be good
Ruski: what do you mean
Ruski: sorry I am new to this term
Ultor: someone told me that they are the hotel manager
Ruski: But I am pretty sure if I vote leo, I am getting shot tonight :D
Ultor: however if someone else says the same thinig
Ultor: then we know that 1 of them is the mafia
Ultor: getting shot doesnt matter
Ultor: its all about getting the mafia and the SK
Ruski: who claims to be hotel manager?
Ultor: u wont be shot, it will be me
Ultor: i wont tell you that
Ruski: HATER?
Ruski: Well
Ruski: you saw my post?
Ruski: Hater, Ish, Leo
Ruski: 2 of these 3 are mafia
Ruski: But I can't be 100% sure
Ultor: could be just 1
Ruski: until someone gets shot tonight
Ultor: HATER could be the SK
Ruski: for me its 2 of these
Ruski: SK?
Ruski: Janitor?
Ultor: yes
Ruski: well ye
Ultor: Emziek could be the real Journalist too
Ultor: so if no1 counter-claims his role
Ruski: Emziek was shot
Ruski: wasnt he?
Ruski: and he survived
Ultor: I might announce few things
Ultor: yes he was saved by the doc
Ruski: So he isnt mafia
Ultor: why not?
Ruski: Mafia shoots mafia?
Ruski: is bait play allowed?!
Ultor: anything is allowed
Ultor: but it wasnt that
Ultor: it was because the mafia wanted to shoot another room and it probably got switched by the Janitor
Ultor: and the doc didnt mean to protect Journalist
Ultor: i mean Emziek
Ultor: room swaps happen before doc protection
Ruski: Well this gets confusing
Ruski: but yeah, I think you are right about Hater
Ruski: he seems to be the janitor
Ultor: so who are u gonna vote for?
Ruski: This round, none.
Ruski: Next round, Ish or Leo
Ruski: wops
Ruski: not Ish
Ruski: because he is getting lynched (probably)
Ruski: I will vote leo or hater
Ruski: wait
Ruski: what about programma
Ruski: havent seen him participate much
Ultor: so you're a mafia then?
Ruski: Do I talk like I am?
Ruski: lol
Ultor: yes lol
Ruski: welp
Ultor: as a villager, you need to vote
Ultor: if u dont vote its game over
Ruski: I am not voting this round, I might be wrong.
Ultor: so what if u are wrong
Ruski: We would have lost too many villagers then
Ruski: 4 are already lost
Ultor: that doesnt make sense
Ultor: there is 1 lynch
Ultor: if u vote or not, someone will die because of this lynch
Ruski: Well, I am staying on no lynch
Ruski: brb
Ultor: ok
Ruski: so
Ruski: what do you think of six btw
Ultor: for now I think hes a villager
Ultor: but he could also be the SK
Ruski: he isnt SK for sure
Ruski: Or nvm
Ultor: how do u know?
Ruski: he could be
Ruski: Isnt speaking so much
Ultor: lol
Ruski: so he is probably trying to defend his identity
Ultor: have u read his posts?
Ruski: and just being silent so he doesn't get voted or shot
Ruski: he only posted 3 times
Ruski: lol
Ultor: SiX?
Ruski: Oh
Ruski: I was talking about programma
Ruski: wops
Ruski: About six, its very hard to say for now
Ruski: but I believe he is a villager
Ultor: lol why are u thinking about afks
Ruski: he isnt afk
Ruski: he is checking the topic daily
Ultor: he only posted twice
Ruski: yes I know
Ultor: that makes him afk
Ruski: but he is checking the topic
Ultor: yeah everyone checks it
Ultor: afk in this game means
Ruski: I understand
Ultor: you're not active
Ruski: why dont we vote programma
Ultor: if we dont lynch a mafia this round, its over
Ultor: why should we vote on him?
Ruski: Checking topic, but not saying anything
Ruski: He seems to be fine with whats happening
Ruski: people getting lynched
Ultor: lol thats not a good reason
Ruski: well who knows
Ultor: he can just say im bussy
Ruski: brb
Ultor: im wondering, why are u denying the fact that Leo is a mafia
Ruski: I am not denying
Ruski: I am saying I cant be sure at this point
Ruski: lemme read your posts vs his
Ruski: gimme 10 mins
Ruski: lawliet was villager?
Ultor: ok
Ultor: yes lawliet was villager
Ruski: So leo knows I am talking to you
Ultor: i dont think so
Ultor: he thinks im trying to brainwash you
Ultor: I've found another mafia
Ruski: who
Ultor: You
Ruski: well I explained :D
Ruski: Whatever you think
Ultor: :)
Ultor: can i ask u a q?
Ruski: sure
Ultor: what do u think of SiX and Lien?
Ruski: SiX villager
Ruski: Lien mhm
Ruski: not so sure
Ruski: but imo she could be mafia
Ultor: cool
Ultor: and ko9?
Ruski: HM

This was the chat between me and ultor. I like how he is pointing fingers on others and trying to get along, I got pretty confused for a moment. What made me think Ultor is a mafia was that he is trying to get Leo lynched while Ish was peeked and declared mafia by someone (and he still continued on voting leo, makes me wonder why he wouldn't vote on Ish, probably to save his mafia mate?). This pretty much shows ultor is playing the trick game, trying to convince other by words and not talking about Ish at all except for his analysis part. I have changed my mind.
[vote Ultor]
Also, if I get shot and ultor is proven innocent later then its Leo for sure. Can't seem to trust anyone at this point.


This chat only proves few things:

1. The fact that you're not voting anyone this round to clear suspicion from yourself.
2. The fact that you are defending SiX based on a "gut feeling".
3. The fact that you're trying to redirect attention from those possible mafia to AFKs. Trying to save your teammates.

At this point, I've concluded that based on Emziek's claim as a Journalist, I will [vote Ish] for now, unless I get any counter-claims. I will withdraw this "definite proof" of Emziek being a mafia.

Remember that I still have a HM claim. The person who claimed that to me could be a fake and might aswell be the SK. This is why its extremely important to receive any claims. I am a villager and I am on your side.

@Leo
According to some replies you posted you said:

Quote:
And it should show too that Ultor is completly wrong with his analysis. Well i would ask the HM to switch Emziek to an other room, but hey the HM is Ultor who think that Emziek is not trustable.


Quote:
Ultor's thoughts were with his analysis that Emziek must be mafia or that he looks like one and now Emziek claimed to be the Journalist and that was what i told Ultor per Steam too that i have the Feeling he is innocent and my gut feeling tells me he is more trustable then any other, sure Ultor you can be the HM i have no doubt on it but aslong no one peeked you it is not 100% sure.


Quote:
Ultor is still on the point that Emziek is mafia and that after Emziek revealed his role and no one else claimed to be the Journalist...so in my opinion Emziek is more proven to be the Journalist then Ultor claiming to be HM, what also can be but this claiming is also not 100% like he said it on Emziek. And his "I Show evidences next round" make no sense for me..the round can be over so he just need some guys that trust him and don't need to show his evidences and try to convince others that he is really the HM.


Don't panic Leo, take it easy. In the first 2 quotes, you said that I'm the HM. In the third quote you said that I'm trying to convince everyone that I'm the HM. There is a lot of contradictions going on with your posts Leo- it seems to me that you're really trying hard to defend yourself- if u were a village you wouldn't care about dying. If you honestly believe that I'm the HM then why are you lynching me? Even though Emziek told you not to.

It is obvious that POOOO and Leo are on the same team now and that's proved by their bandwagon on me. Took me long to get them to this stage. Anyhow, I am not the HM and honestly those 48 rounds ain't helping at all, there are still like 4 AFKs.

Here is an alignment list which I created based on the fact that Emziek is the real Journalist:

Red = definite mafia
Orange = possible mafia
Green = definite village
Blue = possible SK
Yellow = unknown

01: HATER
02: Konijn
03: Emziek
04: Pr0Gr4mm4
05: Ish
06: Ultor
07: PandAboYii
08: POOOOO
09: SiX
10: !!!*-Leo-*!!!
11: Lien~


If you would look clearly i voted on Ish because i trusted Emziek and you are/was the most suspicious one for me why i vote you before...i explained it much why you've been that suspicious for me.
So don't try to change the facts...i was one of the first ones that believed Emziek and played for the village...what you didn't at the time he revealed his role...now after you see maybe the ice on that you walk is thin you try still to let all focus on others...1st hardly on me and now POO and dunno who comes next...maybe you changed your opinion after you saw we vote Ish and that a mafia guy will die and that your plan not work that this round ends after one villager get killed who you let to try all focus on...you was close to or are still on the point that you tricked POOO and a small moment you had me too...but nah Ultor not this time..and if it comes out that Ish is mafia it is glassclear for me that you are mafia too !!! (idc that you changed your vote on the last moment to say now yes we need to vote Ish...you just saw not all believe your tricking tactic and go for the logical step to vote Ish.
I will say more to that why i think that if it comes out that Ish is mafia that you Ultor must be mafia too...but im sure all others will see how you tried to get villager killed by their own mates.
If Ish Flips village it is clear that Emziek is mafia what i don't believe. And sure you can think all the same and go with your votes on me then if i was the one that trusted after his claim Emziek more then anyone.

BTW now SiX your best "village" mate seems to be SK now for you...really what tactic is that now?

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Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:09 pm
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#176 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Ultor wrote:
And still waiting for any counter-claims... I have 1 HM claim and we all know that Emziek publicly claimed to be a Journalist. If you are the real one for either of roles, please send me a PM. Don't do it publicly as it might get you killed.



This right here is wrong. DO claim puclicly if you have a counterclaim -- this is how the entire village can know at once that Emziek's claim is contested. This is much more important than personal survival (see: my last post) and almost 100% guarantees that one of the two is mafia.


Ultor has absolutely NO grounds upon which to be trusted. Do NOT claim privately to him if you have a counterclaim (or anyone else, including me). Claim publicly if you wish to contest emziek's claim.

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#177 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
HATER wrote:
Ultor wrote:
And still waiting for any counter-claims... I have 1 HM claim and we all know that Emziek publicly claimed to be a Journalist. If you are the real one for either of roles, please send me a PM. Don't do it publicly as it might get you killed.



This right here is wrong. DO claim puclicly if you have a counterclaim -- this is how the entire village can know at once that Emziek's claim is contested. This is much more important than personal survival (see: my last post) and almost 100% guarantees that one of the two is mafia.


Ultor has absolutely NO grounds upon which to be trusted. Do NOT claim privately to him if you have a counterclaim (or anyone else, including me). Claim publicly if you wish to contest emziek's claim.


I totally agree on that point, if you wanna trust anyone make it public and get the backup from all villagers and not in a PM to maybe one that can be mafia guy !!! Only the Journalist Emziek or if it is another guy who have that role can be sure after a lot of peeks who is trustable and who not.

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Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:59 pm
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#178 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Fuck knows. And no one contacted me so go do one.

[vote Ish]


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#179 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Lien~ wrote:
Fuck knows. And no one contacted me so go do one.

[vote Ish]


Veryyy meeeh...and blame the others for it :naughty:

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#180 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Whatever the outcome of today's lynch, the hotel manager needs to switch emziek with someone else tonight -- someone who (hopefully) is likely to be a mafia.

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