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#151 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
The security in this hotel in awful, am I gonna be forced to hire my own security?

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#152 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
I'm still looking for any HM/Journalist counter-claims, would be extremely helpful for the village.


Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:57 pm
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#153 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Ultor wrote:
I'm still looking for any HM/Journalist counter-claims, would be extremely helpful for the village.

Do note that Ultor is by no means a confirmed village.

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#154 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
I agree with you Emziek and that he call all others being mafia and try to trick all with his posts...let me think he is a non villager and maybe work together with SiX in a (mafia) Team.

@Ultor
Your tricks to have excuses with collected evidences doesn't work at all on me.
And try to trick me and POOO and tell me he said he talked with me and in no case you told me he wasn't sure...let me not really believe that you are villager.

There is no other power role at the village team that can peek and come up to you with evidences you wanna have...and if we wait for next round and you get with your analysis for what you voted on me a villager killed and 2 mafia use their power role in a good way would lead to

6 Villagers +4 Mafias +1SK
1 villager (atm me) get lynched, 2 villagers get killed by night Actions, that means -3 villagers =
3 villagers +4 Mafias +1 SK = win mafia

So where are your evidences Ultor and why wait and risk that mafia Team gonna win this game so easy?

For all others make your own thoughts and think about who you wanna believe.
Ultor is still on the point that Emziek is mafia and that after Emziek revealed his role and no one else claimed to be the Journalist...so in my opinion Emziek is more proven to be the Journalist then Ultor claiming to be HM, what also can be but this claiming is also not 100% like he said it on Emziek. And his "I Show evidences next round" make no sense for me..the round can be over so he just need some guys that trust him and don't need to show his evidences and try to convince others that he is really the HM.

[vote Ultor]
Sry but you didn't convinced me with your posts and last game you tried to trick me too per steam if you been a mafia guy...you used the same tactic that i need to trust you...in the game were you was villager and we had a steam talk you wasn't sure about me or others that they must be mafia. And we talked about more Scenarios or better to say you told me more of your thoughts, this time you didn't tried for real to share your thoughts with me, specially if i asked you for your Quickttalk or Quicktop (sorry i don't know this) what you mentioned in steam to me and if i asked you about what happend there you told me "I won't tell it you :)))))))))))"

Just maybe if i get lynched and i flip villager and mafias not be more then villager you should go all with your vote on Ultor or SiX the guys who in my opinion worked together as a (not silent) mafia team.

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Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:50 pm
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#155 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
!!!*-Leo-*!!! wrote:
Ultor is still on the point that Emziek is mafia and that after Emziek revealed his role and no one else claimed to be the Journalist...so in my opinion Emziek is more proven to be the Journalist then Ultor claiming to be HM, what also can be but this claiming is also not 100% like he said it on Emziek. .

If you believe my Journalist claim there is NO REASON not to vote Ish. He has been peeked suspicious, he is the only safe bet to keep the village alive and going.

!!!*-Leo-*!!! wrote:
let me think he is a non villager and maybe work together with SiX in a (mafia) Team.

I doubt it. I'm certain one of SiX and Ultor is a villager and the other one is the SK. Although anything could be possible. It's extremely unlikely SiX is in the mafia team together with Ish, if they're, they've done hell of a good job making it seem like they're playing for different teams.

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Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:58 pm
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#156 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Emziek wrote:
!!!*-Leo-*!!! wrote:
Ultor is still on the point that Emziek is mafia and that after Emziek revealed his role and no one else claimed to be the Journalist...so in my opinion Emziek is more proven to be the Journalist then Ultor claiming to be HM, what also can be but this claiming is also not 100% like he said it on Emziek. .

If you believe my Journalist claim there is NO REASON not to vote Ish. He has been peeked suspicious, he is the only safe bet to keep the village alive and going.

!!!*-Leo-*!!! wrote:
let me think he is a non villager and maybe work together with SiX in a (mafia) Team.

I doubt it. I'm certain one of SiX and Ultor is a villager and the other one is the SK. Although anything could be possible. It's extremely unlikely SiX is in the mafia team together with Ish, if they're, they've done hell of a good job making it seem like they're playing for different teams.


Actually im confused at all...that Ultor try so hardly in my opinion to get us villagers killed let me tend to vote him..but you are right i should vote on Ish if i trust you and as i told it you per PM too i do trust you more then anyone else, also for the reason that no other player claimed to be the Journalist.

I hope you are right with it and i hope if the other villagers trust you too that it comes out that Ish get lynched as a mafia guy, what clearly would show you are more trustable then anyone else and that you work for our town.
And it should show too that Ultor is completly wrong with his analysis. Well i would ask the HM to switch Emziek to an other room, but hey the HM is Ultor who think that Emziek is not trustable.

[vote Ish]

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Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:16 pm
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#157 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Emziek wrote:
It's extremely unlikely SiX is in the mafia team together with Ish, if they're, they've done hell of a good job making it seem like they're playing for different teams.

Scratch this, starting to second guess this read. I think there is a possibility they set up their posts early in the thread to distance their relationship between each other. The posts bellow does suggest that they may infact have a relationship.


Ish
Iso #11
Ish wrote:
We should vote for someone conclusively, otherwise SiX is the one getting lynched because of LHLV, i put forward Crisp0 as he hasn't responded to the thread yet, just his In post. I'd rather vote an afk than someone contributing to the game.


Iso #13
Diversion tactic, the same type I did last game. Gets facts about the kills wrong. Joins SiX by voting Lien
NOTICE how SiX doesn't refute him here like in R1.

SiX
Iso #8
SiX wrote:
-snip-

In regards to your alignment, I've mixed feelings. I want to vote for you, but I also don't want to.

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Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:21 pm
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#158 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
I feel like I owe this post a proper response. I was rather confused earlier about SiX being so caught up on the "POKE" word and it took me multiple posts to actually get where he was coming from.

SiX wrote:
To vote him, with there being a 12 / 13 chance of him being Town, makes no sense. That VOTE makes no sense.

My bad, there was a 1/10 chance of him being the godfather, not 1/13. I'm not gonna risk that 10% to get killed the first round. Not when I had multiple suspects I wanted to investigate first, one which got peeked suspicious.
I placed that vote for 1 sole reason and that is:
Emziek ISO #18
Emziek wrote:
I never actually contacted Lawliet because I wanted to observe his plays first, as such I random voted him R1 but later caught up on his observation on Ultor which I agreed with at the time.


I wanted to see how he would respond to my vote, would he revenge vote me? Contact me himself? He did neither. I never had any intention of actually getting him lynch hence my sudden unvote when Ultor revenge voted him.

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Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:40 pm
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#159 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Besides why does it even matter if Lawliet contacted me after that vote or not? It doesn't. You were grasping at any straws you could find, SiX, to paint me non-town and discredit my PR claim.

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Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:07 am
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#160 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Emziek wrote:
Emziek wrote:
It's extremely unlikely SiX is in the mafia team together with Ish, if they're, they've done hell of a good job making it seem like they're playing for different teams.

Scratch this, starting to second guess this read. I think there is a possibility they set up their posts early in the thread to distance their relationship between each other. The posts bellow does suggest that they may infact have a relationship.
Lol

The only person I spoke to on steam was SiX, and that was when I made my previous long post regarding the deaths of the players, Wayward still hasn't replied to my question regarding the SK's room swap, whether or not it occurs after the Lynch or at the end of the round. Because if it occurred after the lynch then Emziek (if he is the sk) could have changed rooms then stabbed earliergray.


Ish
Iso #11
Ish wrote:
We should vote for someone conclusively, otherwise SiX is the one getting lynched because of LHLV, i put forward Crisp0 as he hasn't responded to the thread yet, just his In post. I'd rather vote an afk than someone contributing to the game.
I merely put forward crisp0 because he was afk the time, and I wanted SiX alive as he was contributing to the game. Everyone else voted for Crisp0, and I could have unvoted but that would have resulted in ultor dying, who at the time hadn't contributed a lot, but way more than Crisp0, and now ultor has contributed a lot to the game.

Iso #13
Diversion tactic, the same type I did last game. Gets facts about the kills wrong. Joins SiX by voting Lien
NOTICE how SiX doesn't refute him here like in R1.
Can you explain the facts about the kills that I have gotten wrong in that post?

SiX
Iso #8
SiX wrote:
-snip-

In regards to your alignment, I've mixed feelings. I want to vote for you, but I also don't want to.


It is true my village gameplay isn't entirely villagesque, Shadi's mentioned it quite a few times, but the thing is I want things to get discussed etc, hence why I put forward obvious things about the game i.e. the roles what can be done with them, what the round 1 stuff can possibly mean, all in order to get everyone discussing stuff so I can attempt to read people, and so other people may read each other too.

Emziek you're claiming journalist and so far no one else has counter-claimed it, which puts you in a position being trusted by the village, if I flip mafia, however when I flip village it could be too late for the village to win as 4 people at max (sniper/or veterans shot remains) may die this round, only if the HM can prevent a death. So that leaves us with possibly 7 players remaining,
4 mafia + 1 sk + 2 villagers, or maybe 3mafia + 1 sk + 2 villagers, or 4 mafia + 3 villagers (in all cases mafia wins). To prevent this scenario a mafia must be lynched this round, also the veteran may want to hold onto his/her shot, so that random villager does not die. The HM will need to save at least one villager. This scenario is in a extreme case, which will most likely not occur, as we'll lynch at least a mafia this round. If I flip village remember to lynch Emziek, if it's not too late.

I've read pretty much all of it, but don't really feel like defending myself extensively, as my death will still reveal who the non town players are, thus my death not being in vain. Going to change my vote to Emziek [Vote Emziek] as he claims I am suspicious and that he is the journalist, could be the Spy for all I know. A reason the true journalist is not coming out is probably not to reveal his/her position, but I think you need to reveal yourself if you want to win the game...but w/e - town usually always derps (myself included)...Tbh I have played horrendously as a villager but I guess its experience for future games :)

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#161 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Also Gerty work pls

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#162 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
Ish wrote:
@WaywardVole shouldn't Lawliet's death command be shot? I was confused when I saw two stabs, thought SK was able to pull off 2 kills... Also the SK can switch with an empty room, does that occur after the lynch or at the end of the round?
Quote:
Lynch-> Room Swaps -> Protections -> Veteran/Sniper Shot -> Janitor Stab -> Mafia Shot -> Peeks -> Janitor returns to a room



1. Yes, it should have been shot, as he was killed by the mafia. I've since edited it. (To save time I copied the command from gray and forgot to change that part.
2. In essence, the Janitor moves after the lynch and HM swaps (done this way because I may need to relocate someone if he moves to an occupied room). He can move to any room, not just empty ones. If he moves to an occupied room, he'll just swap rooms with the occupant. (e.g. If you're in Room 5, Janitor Room 9, and he chooses your room, you'll be moved to Room 9.)
3. It's a side note really, but the HM didn't save Emziek. Earliergray the doctor did just before he died.


Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:56 am
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#163 Post Re: [R1 ends 17 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
SiX wrote:
HATER wrote:
SiX wrote:
HATER wrote:
I'm not terribly sure about this wagon on crisp0.

[vote ultor]

Finger of suspicion on SiX, just a gut feeling.


And I'm not terribly sure about this wagon on Ultor either.
Finger of suspicion on HATER for placing his vote on Ultor rather than on crisp0, who was bound to flip innocent, so he could have a motive to point fingers at others.


.... wait a second here. According to you, any way I could have voted would be the "wrong" vote.


I'm simply showing you how faulty your logic is.


No, you aren't -- you're not using logic of ANY kind here.

HATER: Not sure about the wagon on crisp0
HATER: Finger of suspicion on six for voting crisp0, that's essentially what you are trying to say.

If you look back on my actual post, you'll see I gave my FoS for a gut feeling -- which was then nothing else -- simply a gut reaction. Nothing major yet, just something didn't feel right about you.

My feeling on the bandwagon for crispo was mostly unrelated for why I put the FoS on you.




Six: Not sure about the wagon on Ultor
Six: suspicion on HATER for voting Ultor

Your logic can be used AGAINST you. It's hypocritical of you to suspect someone for doing the same thing you yourself do. And I tried to prove that to you by using sarcasm in my post.




The problem here is you're not using any logic, let alone my own -- you're simply jumbling together random straw man arguments. If you can't see that there's a distinct difference between your haphazard claims and my methodical refutations, then you're wayyy fucking thicker than I thought.

You trying to throw suspicion off of yourself by targeting me for a completely logical decision (e.g. voting for the person I suspected to be mafia more than crisp0) is the part that's illogical, then saying "he was bound to flip village" on one hand and switching sides and saying you obviously can't be faulted for voting for him because "you had no idea".



Futhermore -- my FoS was BEFORE crisp0 flipped and was for a different reason entirely at the time. Your FoS was based off of crisp0's flip after the fact and was based only on my vote.

You can't equivocate the two, and I resent your attempt to. It only shows that you're trying to obfuscate the logical process by attempting to bring in unrelated events and pass them off as some kind of fucked-up evidence.



Code:
Because I wound up getting off work and voting so late in the round, I had essentially 4 options:

#1: Vote Crisp0. Something wasn't quite right about the wagon on him, and I had a feeling he was a villager. I quite frankly just didn't feel comfortable voting for him. And as it turns out, he was indeed a villager -- so I was correct to not vote for him. Obviously voting for him would have made me suspicious (seeing as how

#2: Vote Ultor. This is who I thought looked more suspicious, and this is who I ultimately ended up voting for. I needed to make a decision as to whom I suspected more,  and Ultor came out on top. I can't see why I'm being faulted for this -- if I was really just a mafia looking to throw in a vote to look active, there were better options for me (see #4).

#3: Vote No Lynch. I hate voting no lynch round 1 -- it essentially gives the wolves a free kill. I have never encouraged this practice in any standard game I've ever been in (see: any of my previous walls of text on this topic in other games), and I don't intend to start now.

#4 Vote someone else/ not vote at all: neither of these things would do ANYTHING to change the outcome -- if I was truly a mafia (who would be happy about crisp0 getting lynched) I would be voting someone unrelated to this -- it makes me look active, doesn't generally piss off anyone, and keeps me in the game without changing the outcome of the lynch. THAT would be the best play as a mafia.

None of these options, except maybe #2, look all that appealing. I voted for the most suspicious person I saw based off of who was up for lynch. You've created a false dilemma, a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If I vote for someone I think is a villager, I'm suspicious. If I vote the other guy who I think is more likely to be mafia, I'm suspicious. If I vote no lynch, the village gains no info. If I don't vote at all I'm afk. If I vote someone else entirely, sure I'm not suspicious, but I don't change anything!


Nothing of this has any relevance to your gut feeling whatsoever. This is your subjective read, just like I have mine.


It wasn't meant to have any relevance to my gut feeling that I had at the beginning of the round; this is directly related to your so-called "reasoning" for why you attempted to shift blame from yourself onto me.

I'd like to point out that your above statement is simply a dodge to avoid having to answer the step-by-step, logical argument I laid out. You STILL haven't answered the implicit question that follows logically from my post (which I thought you were smart enough to extrapolate -- guess not!). The question is as follows:

Given the four possible options I had, from the perspective of a villager with the info I had, what, in your opinion, SHOULD I have done instead of vote for the person I voted for? In other words, if I'm suspicious for voting how I voted, then what would be the better alternative in your opinion?

If you can't come up with a better alternative, then we can effectively consider your point null (as if it wasn't already),

You're very fucking quick to accuse someone of being suspicious for making a complete logical decision with (I might add) very few other viable options?




HATER wrote:
Fuck. That. Shit.

It seems that you're deliberately using faulty logic to try and implicate me -- perhaps to get me out of your way?

[vote SiX]


Sarcasm all the way, sir. I wasn't even remotely interested in voting for you, at least not at the time.

Of course you weren't Interested in voting me -- you didn't want to start a war you were sure to lose. Welp, I got news for ya buddy, you started it anyways.


SiX wrote:

HATER wrote:
And yet...


SiX wrote:
Finger of suspicion on HATER for placing his vote on Ultor rather than on crisp0, who was bound to flip innocent, so he could have a motive to point fingers at others.


Since he was given a Town role by the host, he was bound to flip innocent, regardless of what you, I or anyone else has to say about it. That's a matter of fact. But since you rolled mafia (entertaining the thought), you knew the chance of him being innocent was significantly higher, 8 / 9 to be exact.


HATER wrote:
Furthermore, if Crisp0 was "bound to flip innocent", then why the FUCK were you voting him?


This is exactly what I mean with you taking thing out of context to make me look bad by assuming I said something I didn't say. From the very beginning, I argued from the perspective of you being a Mafia.


Knowing CrisP0 wasn't a Mafia, he was bound to flip innocent (or SK which I didn't include at the time). With that in mind, you decided to vote for Ultor so you could use that as a motive to point fingers at me. That's basically what I said, but you assume I somehow knew that CrisP0 was a Town Member while I in fact referred to you being a Mafia with CrisP0 not being on your team.



Okay, you want to argue from the "perspective of me being a mafia"? Let's fucking DO this:



Jesus fucking christ -- did you not read?

As I covered in my last post -- from that perspective, if I was a mafia and knew crisp0 would flip village, blah blah -- why the fuck would I even bother voting for ultor? I could have thrown my vote on Lien, Ish, you, or LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE that it couldn't matter on -- why would I risk someone else voting with me on Ultor and thus changing the outcome of the lynch and making me look guilty or killing a teammate (if ultor is village, I'd be one of the ones that killed him (and therefore somewhat suspicious), if ultor was mafia, I'd have killed one of my teammates). Either way, if I was mafia and someone else voted ultor after I voted,


Voting Ultor would be literally one of the WORST plays for me as a mafia -- it would have put me in a place of highly unnecessary risk. In fact, not voting at all would be a better option than voting for ultor if I was mafia.





Quote:

You clearly need to pay more attention to the details before trying to make someone look bad for something they didn't say.



You know, that's fucking funny -- I could say the same thing to you.


Let's break it down here --

SiX:

-Creates false dilemma (if I vote for the person I think is more likely to be mafia, then I'm obviously mafia, because I chose the one less likely to be suspicious?). Jesus christ, idiot. If we all followed that logic we would never FUCKING LYNCH A MAFIA EXCEPT BY ACCIDENT (which is what the village is kinda on track to do this round, I might add).

- Tries to dodge my breakdown of the above false-dilemma by bringing up that my (mostly unrelated) FoS on him R1 was due to a gut feeling -- this is true, but that gut feeling isn't what I'm confronting him on. Now we're arguing facts, not gut feelings.

- Attempts to equivocate my arguments to his own flimsy "reasoning" (not only is this highly inaccurate, it's also quite insulting if you think about it!)


-Tries to use the "perspective of HATER as a mafia" as some kind of evidence without even CONSIDERING there were clearly better options for me as a mafia


This, to me, looks like the efforts of a man DESPERATE to paint another as guilty without considering ANY substantial points of logic.








-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, I've talked with Ezmiek. Since he is our non-counterclaimed Cop claim...

Obligatory PSA:

(AGAIN, IF YOU ARE THE JOURNALIST, PLEASE STEP FORWARD AND CLAIM PUBLICLY NOW, OTHERWISE EMZIEK IS ASSUMED COP BY DEFAULT)



But unless someone counterclaims, we can assume Emziek is the Cop. He's claimed to have peeked Ish as evil -- and since there are no roles that can mislead peeks to read "guilty", he can be assumed to be evil unless there is a cop counterclaim.


As much as I'd love to lynch SiX, I have to go with what simple logic dictates. Nobody has counterclaimed Emz yet, so:


[vote Ish]


Also, if you're the Hotel Manager, PLEASE switch Emz. Make sure he keeps switching rooms so that he can't be killed.


I encourage everyone else to do the same UNLESS someone counterclaims publicly in the thread.

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#164 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
[vote no lynch]
By reading everyone's post, I can so far conclude that SiX and ultor are villagers (why? because the way these 2 defend themselves shows that they really want to survive the game and win, their opinions are also different from everyone else but then again I am not sure). Suspicion on Leo and HATER atm. Will see who dies this time and probably it will be clearer.

EDIT: Suspicion on Ish too, 2 of these 3 seem to be mafia so far (imo). If Ish and leo die (and proved villagers), then ultor is mafia for sure.


Last edited by Apple on Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:06 am
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#165 Post Re: [R2 ends 19 July, 23:59 EST] Mafia XXXI: L'Hôtel de la Mort Isolate
POOOOO wrote:
[vote no lynch])
SiX and ultor are villagers (why? because the way these 2 defend themselves shows that they really want to survive the game and win)



First off -- a player that's extremely focused on their own personal survival is much more likely to be mafia/3rd party. This is because the SK is his entire team (he makes up 100% of the members on his team-- so if he dies, he loses), each mafia is 25% of their team, and each one plays a generally vital role (if even one mafia member dies, the chances of the mafia winning are drastically lowered), but each villager is only about 11% of their own team -- the village can afford to lose a couple players and still be okay.


Therefore, if you are a villager, you should care less about your own survival compared to what information your team can gain. In pretty much any game, if I have the option to die so that my team could learn the name of a mafia, I would choose that option every time (unless there were so few players left that me dying would cause the wolves to instantly win). This is because the village will always win an equal war of attrition.

If you've done something useful for your team as a villager, and you die, your team can still win without you a lot of times. On the other hand, if you're a mafia or SK and you die, your team is put at a severe disadvantage.


Hence, Mafia and SK tend to value their own survival more than anything else. Villagers know they can die and their team will carry them. Mafia and SK often do not have that option.







Secondly, we have a non-countered cop claim who claims to have peeked Ish as mafia. In the absence of any other person claiming to be the cop, we can assume he is telling the truth. Ergo, we should be voting Ish.

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