Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

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Sloth
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by Sloth »

No, no, no, no, no.

First of all if you want to do a HNS you should talk to your teammates and ask them if they are willing to play HNS if someone says no, then simply DONT.

The vent rule has been like this ever since jailbreak started and it is basically because the T's needs a safe spot, just like the CT's has their spot (gunroom). And what do you mean you can enter gunroom with a vent in jb_snow thats not even close to possible. The CT's needs to be on guard to protect, and if you mean this is not balanced you should think about that you have guns and the T's clearly does not start with any guns.

The T's teamkilling rule... Sry but I shat myself laughing at this. The nades are doing damage on the most jailbreak servers m8, one of the reasons is because there are games in certain maps where you need nades to do team dmg (nade volleyball ex. jb_arsenal).
Teamkilling with spikes should not be allowed for the T's wtf are you on about? Ofc its the free will of a T to do so, but it ruins the game for other ppl and it should not be ct's fault for some cunt willing to teamkill everyone for the "fun".
Teamkilling with cars goes for the same way, the cars are the same way you're not meant to kill ppl with cars without it being a game and this rule should stay no matter what, due to ppl killing others to get lr without them being able to do somethin back.

To summarize it all I guess you are a person that is mad because u got warned for teamkilling. Thanks and bye
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by Konijn »

HuniePop wrote: Anyway, other opinions?
The only thing I have to add to Sloth's post is that with regards to the HNS day, it is not just about a CT being at risk of death if they're outside the gunroom and unavailable to get back inside quickly, it is mainly about that CT being able to watch where the Ts hide and consequentially making the day unfair for such Ts.

Do also note that a HNS day can continue if a CT is outside the gunroom, providing they get to the gunroom in a reasonable time (I would consider reasonable as within 10 seconds) OR if that CT dies, within a reasonable time, via either a member slay or a T.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by Sloth »

ur responses just proves my arguments? Ofc its not safe the ct's can nade the vents, the t's can rush the gunroom. What is meant with "safe spots" is that it is restricted for both teams.

Thing is that if a CT is gonna rush a guy in a vent with M4 every round the vents are for no use and might as well be removed, but if you rly think u can come to nD in 2015 and change the rules to ur beloved ambrosia then idk. Theres not rly much to discuss, and the only arguments you have back is me telling me i shat myself of laughing, and if u didnt understand me it was sarcasm, go look it up bro
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by Styx »

I completely agree with Sloth. Vents are there as a route to escape, ANY GOOD CT TEAM CAN HANDLE ESCAPERS. Might be that the current players aren't as good as they were 3-4 years ago, but vents is a rule that's always been there and should be there.

Teamkilling as T makes no sense at all, you're basically saying that friendly fire could be on all the time. It creates chaos and it becomes really hard for CT to control the Ts.

/hns shouldn't be started unless all CTs are inside, if they're not, don't start it. Also read Konijns post.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by Shadi »

HuniePop wrote:Some of these really give me quite a concern. In my opinion, they should not be here at all.

There are 3 of these I'd like to discuss about.

1)HNS.


The problem about it is, that recently some CT's decide to not even play HNS at all. Let me explain -
When starting HNS, we forget, that 1 or 2 CT's were outside of the gunroom. Ye, that happened, and countdown has already started.
BUT, instead of waiting for it to start, ct's start a FD. Just because few careless ct's were outside of the cage are, far away from gunroom, wandering around the map before any kind of action actually started.

Cancelling HNS and doing FD instead just because of that is pointless. Why?
1) The only concern for you might be terrorists killing that CT will give T's a gun, as that would result with them rushing to gunroom and killing all CT's before HNS even started.
No matter if the CT was killed/outside of gunroom or not, IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER!
Why? Because there already are tons of guns in every map. Scout, mp5, uzi, tmp, awp, shield and else.
2) If that FD ends and we start a cage day or any other commanding activity, we CT's end up having seer mode during it, which is unfair for rebellers.



2) Vent rule. The one, that forbids CT's entering it no matter what.
It's the worst of all and should never exist.
Why would you even restrict it in the first place? Just because it makes it tougher for T's to rebel?
Once I was in situation, where I was chasing down a rebeller, but then he ended up going in the vent and I reachd the vent 1 second later, but he was gone already.
Knowing, that I was not allowed to get in the vent for whatever reason, I had to go other way around.

That is a really pointless rule, suggested by players, that rebel every day AND get sad every time they fail.
I see why that reason was valid enough for the rule to be considered, but there are lots of different ways to rebel. T's can use team chat to plan rebels on the open field.
Vent is only a part of the map, it doesn't have any kinds of forcefields.

It's just wrong, plain wrong. For example, in jb_snow, where you see a rebeller going down to gunroom through the vent, and you try to chase him, he gets an easy access to gunroom.
THIS IS ACTUALLY UNFAIR TO CT'S! THE GAME AIN'T BALANCED AT ALL!
Also, I can pretty much consider that "vent" as a "tunnel" as a valid reason to go in there as a CT, if everything is taken literally.


3)T's teamkilling. (Nades and Spikes, crashing with cars without giving an order).
I see no reason why this should be restricted.
Nades having friendly fire between T's without FF ON is most likely a bug. Even then, it's not a proper reason to restrict teamkilling.
Killing with spikes in the cage. That's a free will of a T, he should obviously be able to do that. If people get killed in the cage by that, CARELESS CT'S SHOULD BE BLAMED FOR THAT INSTEAD! They should never let any T to any button, and once in a while focus on the ongoing events of commanding.
Killing with cars. Free will.

That's another rule added just because of endless complaints over and over again.

These peopel complaining should instead grab a cookie instead of complaining after being t-killed.



If this dicussion goes further, we might talk about this in TS3 for more certain details.

1) Should be checked before the CTs type /hns
2) In terms of logic I agree with you, in terms of balance less so.

There should however be a rule for how long the Ts can stay down there or something, especially if the situation allows them to delay the LR; and even more in maps with stupendously long/wide/easily reached vents.

3) Tbh I question this myself, the Ts want the other Ts dead and if it's not with a grenade I don't see why pressing buttons or killing them should be discouraged because it's technically your win condition.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by doeda »

No, the teamkills should NOT be allowed, why ruin for everyone else who is just obeying for LR, or to not get killed just to get killed by his TEAMMATE? This makes no sense for me, if you allow cagespikes kill or whatsoever, then just scratch off the teamkill/teamattack rule for the CT as well.
Makes no sense, no one has ever complained about it, it has always been okay for everybody, and believe me being the one getting killed by a teammate is very frustrating. It will just adapt to everyone harassing, purposely freekilling and so on. A no go.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by zapt0r »

Shadi wrote:
HuniePop wrote:Some of these really give me quite a concern. In my opinion, they should not be here at all.

There are 3 of these I'd like to discuss about.

1)HNS.


The problem about it is, that recently some CT's decide to not even play HNS at all. Let me explain -
When starting HNS, we forget, that 1 or 2 CT's were outside of the gunroom. Ye, that happened, and countdown has already started.
BUT, instead of waiting for it to start, ct's start a FD. Just because few careless ct's were outside of the cage are, far away from gunroom, wandering around the map before any kind of action actually started.

Cancelling HNS and doing FD instead just because of that is pointless. Why?
1) The only concern for you might be terrorists killing that CT will give T's a gun, as that would result with them rushing to gunroom and killing all CT's before HNS even started.
No matter if the CT was killed/outside of gunroom or not, IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER!
Why? Because there already are tons of guns in every map. Scout, mp5, uzi, tmp, awp, shield and else.
2) If that FD ends and we start a cage day or any other commanding activity, we CT's end up having seer mode during it, which is unfair for rebellers.



2) Vent rule. The one, that forbids CT's entering it no matter what.
It's the worst of all and should never exist.
Why would you even restrict it in the first place? Just because it makes it tougher for T's to rebel?
Once I was in situation, where I was chasing down a rebeller, but then he ended up going in the vent and I reachd the vent 1 second later, but he was gone already.
Knowing, that I was not allowed to get in the vent for whatever reason, I had to go other way around.

That is a really pointless rule, suggested by players, that rebel every day AND get sad every time they fail.
I see why that reason was valid enough for the rule to be considered, but there are lots of different ways to rebel. T's can use team chat to plan rebels on the open field.
Vent is only a part of the map, it doesn't have any kinds of forcefields.

It's just wrong, plain wrong. For example, in jb_snow, where you see a rebeller going down to gunroom through the vent, and you try to chase him, he gets an easy access to gunroom.
THIS IS ACTUALLY UNFAIR TO CT'S! THE GAME AIN'T BALANCED AT ALL!
Also, I can pretty much consider that "vent" as a "tunnel" as a valid reason to go in there as a CT, if everything is taken literally.


3)T's teamkilling. (Nades and Spikes, crashing with cars without giving an order).
I see no reason why this should be restricted.
Nades having friendly fire between T's without FF ON is most likely a bug. Even then, it's not a proper reason to restrict teamkilling.
Killing with spikes in the cage. That's a free will of a T, he should obviously be able to do that. If people get killed in the cage by that, CARELESS CT'S SHOULD BE BLAMED FOR THAT INSTEAD! They should never let any T to any button, and once in a while focus on the ongoing events of commanding.
Killing with cars. Free will.

That's another rule added just because of endless complaints over and over again.

These peopel complaining should instead grab a cookie instead of complaining after being t-killed.



If this dicussion goes further, we might talk about this in TS3 for more certain details.

1) Should be checked before the CTs type /hns
2) In terms of logic I agree with you, in terms of balance less so.

There should however be a rule for how long the Ts can stay down there or something, especially if the situation allows them to delay the LR; and even more in maps with stupendously long/wide/easily reached vents.

3) Tbh I question this myself, the Ts want the other Ts dead and if it's not with a grenade I don't see why pressing buttons or killing them should be discouraged because it's technically your win condition.

I agree with you on most aspects, but considering Teamkilling as T, it should be allowed in that way that u don't get kicked/slayed or punished for teamkilling. If u manage to teamkill without the ct's noticing, you should get away with it. On the other hand, if the ct's see you teamkilling, they should be allowed to kill you. Back in the old days teamkilling was allowed, but punishable by death if you got caught, it should be like this again. After which it's just way of rebelling, ct's just have to pay more attention and give stricter commands.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by Flath »

When i joined the server for the first time, i was surprised teamkilling wasn't allowed since for me, it used to bring a lot of fun situations and in my opinion, jailbreak is about having fun. However, if you are talking about massive teamkilling, i have to say it can be quite frustrating if round after round, you are getting teamkilled for following the commands cause in the end, jailbreak is about helping each other as terrorists in order to kill the ct team and this state of mind is already broken enough as it is thanks to jbshop.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by doeda »

I can't believe you are actually agreeing on the teamkilling part, do you have no sense what would happen if IT actually WAS allowed?

1.) People will only aim at teamkilling even if they will get caught they will be glad to take a shitton of T's with them.

2.) No more decent rounds, as the creativity of the CT's commanding are already dropping tremendously, the days will become close to not fun at all.

3.) Jailbreak is meant to have fun? You use your own argument against you what fun is there to be teamkilled when you are obeying the CT's to not get killed and survive? What fun is there to get teamkilled and you can do nothing against it?

4.) What about the CT's how will they react amongst themselves? They will do it as well of course total chaos will lurk out, literally.

Not to mention the hate and swearing it's going to come with it.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by KaKao »

With the current jbshop and VIP we'll probably see people using double damage and buying a nade to just f*ck their teammates over.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by zapt0r »

doeda wrote:I can't believe you are actually agreeding on the teamkilling part, do you have no sense what would happen if IT actually WAS allowed?

1.) People will only aim at teamkilling even if they will get caught they will be glad to take a shitton of T's with them.

2.) No more decent rounds, as the creativity of the CT's commanding are already dropping tremendously, the days will become close to not fun at all.

3.) Jailbreak is meant to have fun? You use your own argument against you what fun is there to be teamkilled when you are obeying the CT's to not get killed and survive? What fun is there to get teamkilled and you can do nothing against it?

4.) What about the CT's how will they react amongst themselves? They will do it as well of course total chaos will lurk out, literally.

Not to mention the hate and swearing it's going to come with it.

Yes of course there are many bad things that comes along with the rule. I personally can't take being teamkilled, but it gives u more options when it comes to gameplay and rebelling. We didn't really have any strong issues with this when it was allowed to teamkill.

2) What do you mean? How does this prevent creativity?
I dont get what u are trying to say in point 4). Teamkilling among ct's will of course not we allowed, as it is.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by zapt0r »

Flath wrote:When i joined the server for the first time, i was surprised teamkilling wasn't allowed since for me, it used to bring a lot of fun situations and in my opinion, jailbreak is about having fun. However, if you are talking about massive teamkilling, i have to say it can be quite frustrating if round after round, you are getting teamkilled for following the commands cause in the end, jailbreak is about helping each other as terrorists in order to kill the ct team and this state of mind is already broken enough as it is thanks to jbshop.
Totally agree with you.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by Flath »

@Dooda

Teamkilling isn't really that bad to be fair, like i just said, it can bring a lot of funny situations and i have a lot of memories from my previous community where teamkilling was allowed and yet it wasn't chaotic at all. I think you misread my words, i never said teamkilling would be viable in the current server but you are talking about it as if it was something bad ^^

Get rid of all the kids on the server swearing for nothing, get rid of jbshop, get a full server with a good rule knowledge and a good level of english, have a good ct team guarding the "hot spots" and i guarantee you you will see teamkilling as something positive.

The ct team is the most important element in jailbreak, have a good one and the days will be fun. Have a bad one and the server is fucked. Rules are not that important in the end.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by KaKao »

Flath wrote:get a full server with a good rule knowledge and a good level of english, have a good ct team guarding the "hot spots"
Wasn't the reason you went non steam because the server was dying? from what I've experienced post non steam addition is that the commanding level has gone down the drain.
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Re: Discussion about some of the rules in Jailbreak.

Post by Styx »

You're assuming the CT team is good, which happens yes. But we can't look away from the fact that these days, most CT's aren't. If you can get lr by pressing 2 buttons, it's not fair. Just imagine you have a good commander and you'd like to play some games on the map and earn your lr. 1 or 2 bad CT's lets your teammate to the panel and you die. This could happen MANY times and I'd find it annoying at the very least.
When it comes to nading it's a good feature for games on the map, however you shouldn't be allowed to kill teammates with it. (2 nades = lr in small areas, or even kills your whole team) It creates chaos, people will get angry at eachother and the server won't be a nice place to be anymore.

Practically you give advantages to those with a lot of nDcash, as they can spam nades and kill teammates for lr.
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