Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

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Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Schlumpf »

Hey there,
I am writing to you regarding the nD "Simon says" rules.
According to the rules you can start simon how ever you want to as long as it's obvious that you start Simon.
For Example the following ways to start Simon are legit:
-Simon says, I am simon.
-We are going to play Simon says.
-We are going to play Smith says.

To prove my statements read the rules:
Simon says
Simon says is one of the most played game in the Jailbreak server, and therefore it's important to know its rules. After the CTs have sent the Ts to a location, one CT can start the game by declaring himself Simon (Simon says I'm Simon) or announcing the start of the game.
When you say you are something with the "XX says I'm XX" and/or "simon says I'm XX" (given that you are simon or XX at the point) you will become it
Not only can you start Simon by saying the things mentioned above, you can actually put a whole bunch of crap around this sentece to trick the terrorists.
For Example:
CT's check the cells and kill everybody who is still in there. Guys we are going to play Simon says. CT please look for escapers.

This basically starts simon and it's hard to seperate the important part from the unimportant. I know that these are mind tricks and ct's often use them, i've been playing jb for ages..
A lot of people in the nD JB Server are not so clever to seperate this. I've seen a lot of people getting freekilled regarding the wrong start /missunderstanding of Simon says.
This missunderstanding is very common in JB and even the Pro players are confused.
Therefore i suggest making the start of simon says a bit more easy.

I suggust "Simon says I am Simon" is the only way to start Simon says.
This also relates to "Smith says I am Smith".

Basically you still have to concentrate and listen to the CT but there will be only one way to start Simon off and not a undefined number of ways.
Also.. changing this rule brings us probably more surivors who can actually play some games in the map and don't be dead from the very beginning.
Please don't be affraid to change the rules and at least think if there is maybe a good side in changing them as i mentioned.

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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by c63shmurda »

this is a great idea beacuse alot nonsteamers dosent understand everything about simons says rules, This would make it easier for them so they dont need to die all the time.
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Konijn »

There are really only two valid ways of starting the game:

Simon says I'm simon.
We're going to play Simon says.

Simon may however be substituted for any name desired, but that doesn't mean it's a different way of starting the game, it's the same way but with a different name.
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Schlumpf »

So? That's it?
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Piree »

Schlumpf wrote:So? That's it?
There have always been only two valid ways to start Simon Says (the one konijn mentioned). To reduce it to only one would only confuse the players who have been playing jb for a long time. Having two ways to start it is just fine.
CT's check the cells and kill everybody who is still in there. Guys we are going to play Simon says. CT please look for escapers.
If the Commander has a good mic, decent pronunciation, and there are no other CTs talking at the same time (having all three these days is very hard), that command is a nice way to trick people. The problem is, as soon as Terrorists are unable to clearly understand the Commander it starts to become guess work for even the "pro" jailbreakers on wether the Commander is trying to trick or genuinly started simon says.

There used to be other CTs validating the Commanders command, but nowadays most CTs are just brainless zombies following everything the Commander says, rarely correcting him on his mistakes.

I feel like we shouldn't focus on changing the simon says game, but more on the job of CTs. Even if you arn't commanding, you should still listen to the Commander and correct him if necessary. Not just kill a terrorist when the commander tells you to, but know why you have to kill that terrorist. If CTs are unable to do this, they should reread the rules and play terrorist until they understand.
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Konijn »

Piree wrote: If the Commander has a good mic, decent pronunciation, and there are no other CTs talking at the same time (having all three these days is very hard), that command is a nice way to trick people. The problem is, as soon as Terrorists are unable to clearly understand the Commander it starts to become guess work for even the "pro" jailbreakers on wether the Commander is trying to trick or genuinly started simon says.

There used to be other CTs validating the Commanders command, but nowadays most CTs are just brainless zombies following everything the Commander says, rarely correcting him on his mistakes.

I feel like we shouldn't focus on changing the simon says game, but more on the job of CTs. Even if you arn't commanding, you should still listen to the Commander and correct him if necessary. Not just kill a terrorist when the commander tells you to, but know why you have to kill that terrorist. If CTs are unable to do this, they should reread the rules and play terrorist until they understand.
You hit the nail on the head there buddy.
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Mystic »

Announcing the start of the game can be done in several ways? Look @ quote of Kakao, doesn't say the way to announce it is " we're going to". Could say we shall proceed with playing simon says. Ezpz rektangled
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Shadi »

I don't think we need more than one way, but it's fun because it makes the game a little more confusing. I'm pretty neutral on this. I can see why it'd be better for newer regulars but right now simon allows us to eliminate a lot of people so - it even confuses some of our regulars.

Is it needed? No. Do we want to keep it? I assume so.

Also ye Mystic something like "I will start simon says now" by the way the rule is defined would also start the game, proceed is more a word used for carrying on with something already on-going.
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Cruxell »

Also, it's stupid that when Simon switches to Smith (or someone else) he can't go back to Simon. I really see no point of that rule.
Example:

Simon says I'm Simon.
Simon says I'm Smith
Smith says I'm Randy
Randy says I'm Simon
<--- He can't switch back to Simon because he was Simon already, so it's against the rules. Theres no point of that because the hole "XX says I'm YY" game is to confuse people.
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Konijn »

Dinex wrote:Also, it's stupid that when Simon switches to Smith (or someone else) he can't go back to Simon. I really see no point of that rule.
Example:

Simon says I'm Simon.
Simon says I'm Smith
Smith says I'm Randy
Randy says I'm Simon
<--- He can't switch back to Simon because he was Simon already, so it's against the rules. Theres no point of that because the hole "XX says I'm YY" game is to confuse people.
It is actually allowed to go from Simon->Smith->Simon, it is just a common misinterpretation of the rules which is why people think it is not.

The rules state you cannot start simon more than once a round per CT. Some people have misinterpreted this to mean that you cannot be the name simon more than once, but it actually just means you cannot start the game which is called "simon says" (regardless of what name is actually being used for "Simon").
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by austria_wien »

Dinex wrote:Also, it's stupid that when Simon switches to Smith (or someone else) he can't go back to Simon. I really see no point of that rule.
Example:

Simon says I'm Simon.
Simon says I'm Smith
Smith says I'm Randy
Randy says I'm Simon
<--- He can't switch back to Simon because he was Simon already, so it's against the rules. Theres no point of that because the hole "XX says I'm YY" game is to confuse people.
well i think it is ok, but it isn't ok when anni is on the mic and turns the voice speed to over 9000. :trollface:
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by austria_wien »

Konijn wrote:There are really only two valid ways of starting the game:

Simon says I'm simon.
We're going to play Simon says.

Simon may however be substituted for any name desired, but that doesn't mean it's a different way of starting the game, it's the same way but with a different name.
i dont want to grab it up, but i have to. because yesterday we have the following case, where the CTs react differently:

the commander wanted to start simon and said "simon say i'm simon". is this a correct command? i mean i (for myself) would say yes. but on the other side, as ko9 said above, there are only these two commands, so it is a no?

and the second thing (don't know if discussed earlier):
there is always one active simon command. case:
simon says follow the green line crouching only.
simon says you can pass the red and white floor.

first cmd invalid? (would say no)

simon says follow me silent walking.
simon says drunken wait for your teammates.

first cmd invalid? (would say no)

in both cases the rules are clear, but unfortunately we all act differently.
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Re: Suggestion to change "Simon says" rule

Post by Konijn »

austria_wien wrote: i dont want to grab it up, but i have to. because yesterday we have the following case, where the CTs react differently:

the commander wanted to start simon and said "simon say i'm simon". is this a correct command? i mean i (for myself) would say yes. but on the other side, as ko9 said above, there are only these two commands, so it is a no?
I assume you mean if the commander says "say" instead of "says"? I would say that it should be valid as I have heard many commanders with bad english command like this without knowing they are making a mistake. Additionally, say and says are far too similar to be used as a trick, so even if it's invalid players following the command must not be killed.
austria_wien wrote: and the second thing (don't know if discussed earlier):
there is always one active simon command. case:
simon says follow the green line crouching only.
simon says you can pass the red and white floor.

first cmd invalid? (would say no)

simon says follow me silent walking.
simon says drunken wait for your teammates.

first cmd invalid? (would say no)

in both cases the rules are clear, but unfortunately we all act differently.
There are not actually any rules which state that only one simon command can be running at the same time. Simon commands should flow in the same manner as normal commands do.

e.g.:

Simon says crouch and follow me
Simon says silent walk and follow me

Should be treated the same as if simon was not active, i.e. the Ts should stop crouching and silent walk and follow the commander.

In your first case, providing the second command does not conflict the first command, the Ts should continue to follow the green line while crouching.

In your second case, drunken should wait for his team mates and his team mates should continue following the first command (follow the commander silent walking).

For the record, this is how things are strictly according to the rules. Again, it is a misconception that new simon says commands overwrite the old ones and/or one simon says command may only be valid at a time. Never has this actually been written in the rules, however it most certainly has been common practice and a belief held by most players. Due to the fact that most players already believe this is how it works, I am strongly in favour of officially changing the rules to be "new simon says commands overwrite old ones".
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