Where is everyone?

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Spiitzz
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Spiitzz »

25142 wrote:
kami (GER] wrote:i left jailbreak because of players like you.
Yeah players like me who go out of their way to make sure everyone is having as much fun as possible. I wasn't referring to why you left Kami because realistically you have never contributed to any type of fun at jailbreak. If you have, then I have never seen it which only leaves me to conclude that its rare.

You and Spiitz are never asked to command [i'm referring to spiitz cos he liked your comment] , i'm not being big headed but so many people ask me to command everyday and that's only because they know that I am a versatile commander and I know for sure I am better than you two combined. Again i'm not being big headed, I just feel like I should say it because these two are constantly on my case.

Ok so from now on quit with the negativity towards me ok? thanks
Really man ? Stop praising so much -.- I'm trying to command fun rounds all the time by using the map ONLY, but still you keep on complaining. Instead of complain, why don't you try to help the commanders you don't like ? In that way they will learn how to command good rounds faster.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Laprot the Freekiller »

Godsake stop making this to a hating thread, im getting really annoyed by such things....251 SIMPLY asked for improvment, and you guys start nagging on him. FOR WHAT REASON? he might have done something before, BUT that dosn´t belong here!
Don´t continue on this nagging subject, else their will be action made.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by 25142 »

Sometimes I have been playing one round for like 10-15 minutes , but the server is still full. It just depends who is online, people used to fight to be on the CT team when players like QuickSilver East Clubber Laprot etc were on the team [Not ass licking it's the truth] and it just used to be a fun environment. It's just my opinion though, others still really enjoy jailbreak and so do I - but just not as much.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Shadi »

Pack your bags of hatred away and let's discuss the god damn topic.

I know several people who decide to leave nD jailbreak, both permanently and temporarily because of the stupendously long rounds. Moreover, as Uhu mentions, the commanders are so fucking boring.

Whom do we target when I say boring commanders? That doesn't matter, if you get the gist of this we are all becoming more boring. You all say how fucking awesome it was back in the days and that it is another neonDragon now. Who is to blame? Yeah... it's YOU. All you oldschool guys think it's neonDragon's (community not person.. oh ffs Alex get a new name) fault it is going as it is. If you saw awesome commanders back then, then go ahead and use the same commands as them all of you go make it fun, who is holding you back?

About the boring commanders I doubt this, or any other wakeup call, will make people even try.

Generally my experience with nD commanders is that ALL of you are boring, only a few of you have managed to catch my attention and this is not to patronise anyone. I was not there in 2009, where you all claim it was so awesome, but if it was so awesome back then, then you guys are the only that can bring it back... would be better than complaining.

My experience with some of the JB commanders, you all sound like you are 30, tired of life and wanting to kill yourself ... your rounds become extremely long-winded because you do not laugh more or joke with the players (Take Laprot he's a good example of how to make the Ts have as much fun as you) then (no offence) but the most boring commander I know is Samstein... I think i could manage to fall asleep for 30 minutes wake up and still hear him command so slowly and boringly. (No offence again, + I don't think he plays anymore?) and I don't think the rest of you are so far from Samstein.. you are playing JB because you want to play it, it is no job... make it sound like it is actually a part of your leisure.

Secondly, except for sounding intrigued which seems to be intricating for you... you need to step up with the variety of games, all games are ok.. simon says everything .. but for the love of god find one decent cycle you do every map... instead of making 2 games and asking others to command right after because you become bored yourself...

I literally hear some commanders go like "what should be play?... ok emm i have no idea let's im...provise? get into the ca.... oh fuck i died coz a T stabbed me .. can someone take o.... oh fuck he died too" I mean when people come to the server and hear this said with a very monotonous voice with no excitement in it.. what do you think players do? Laugh? No...

About the long rounds except for the commanders I honestly do not understand why it cannot go faster... it just seems to be a part of neonDragon jailbreak that rounds are slow.. it causes some players to leave but except for giving terrorists stronger rebelling tools I do not have any ideas.

Your policy about warnshooting may be the case .. (it's good but it makes rounds longer if you let people rebel over and over and over before you kill them)

My idea is that you use simon not to play games with simon but to make people follow you and that you have the plausibility to blow their head off without warnings.

Use the map, every single bit of it to vary your commanding style.. even the empty fields on them... there are several games that are not played but yet can be played on empty fields etc..
I once linked a link to mY.RuN with games I haven't seen anyone use them, yet I regard them all as great ideas that have mostly worked (Remember it can take time to explain people a new game over and over in a level-headed way.)

So if you want it to be awesome again don't complain that it sucks but move your ass.... we know it sucks now but you ain't doing no contributions either. I am talking to all now ..
And especially the admins and oldschoolers, get your ass on the servers and command only you guys have the years of knowledge in advantage.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Marksel »

Shadi wrote:I was not there in 2009, where you all claim it was so awesome, but if it was so awesome back then, then you guys are the only that can bring it back... would be better than complaining.

It looks like people have been wondering this, and while to me it seems obvious it doesnt to others, so I'll just go ahead and explain WHY jail got boring and why it was once so awesome.
When jailbreak launched, there was a very limited ruleset, there were like 3-4 games you could play with T because it was new and none others were thought of yet, therefore every new game that was thought of was refreshing, and there was never a conflict with the rules.

As time went on, more and more games were thought of, but then we entered a point where games became really abusive, in ways they could kill the T team extremely fast by playing a game that was simply super effective at killing terrorists off. People were exploiting that there was a limited ruleset, and just went for insane scores as CT.
Because of this, a new ruleset had to be thought of. With the help of mainly Agito, we erected a propper ruleset that protected the terrorists and restricted the CT's. This wasnt at all bad at the time, there was still alot of room for creativity and new games. This was in the start of summer 2009.

As summer 2009 went on, the nD* Jail team together with the admins started looking more at games that were thought of, and wether they should be allowed or not, aswell as making specific rules for some of the more standard games (such as hide and seek / freedays).
Summer 2009 throughout was a fun experience, because at the time there werent enough rules to limit gameplay that much, while there the concept of jail was new itself, not just to nD but to the entire cs1.6 community. EXPLORATION COULD BE DONE. I think this is one of the big factors of what made it more fun. people with creativity could stand up and think of new games, and new games were always suprising and fresh. This simply doesnt exist anymore, new games are either not allowed in the rules or plain bad.

When we got to Fall 2009 (maybe it was later) the list of rules had expanded a little bit, but enough that there was a big increase in people whining that others break rules, people were always looking out for CT's to make mistakes so they could complain about it and get the CT kicked, so they could become the CT themselves. The rules at the time were still somewhat vague and open to interpretation.
In response to this increase in whining aswell as looking for the borders of the rules and often crossing it (Just to give an example: Someone thought of the concept 'jail day' where if you yelled everyone should stay in their jail before you open them, you could simply kill everyone that would leave their jail. this obviously was alot of fun for the CT's as they got a shitton of kills, but more importantly, T's might aswell just go afk because they cant do jack anyway.) the nD jail team sat down with the admins to make a refined ruleset that wasnt open to interpretation and was clear on almost every situation, every game that could be played, etc.
Immagine the rules before that being written on about 2 sheets of paper, this new ruleset was about 20 sheets in comparison.
At this point, jail became very hard to control, because it was simply ALOT easyer to break rules. People got even more whiny because people broke more rules because of this, more moderators were required to keep jail fair, and the general atmosphere was more dull, because ever since that ruleset came, there were hardly any new and fresh games to play. There were some, but not even close to as many as beforehand.

The sad thing is, these rules are simply needed. If we were to go back to the ruleset we had before, jail would be a hellhole, because everyone that plays jail NOW has possibly played it for 3 years. Everyone that played jail THEN had played it for maybe a month and were still exploring the mod.
The mod has been explored, is no longer a new thing or a fresh thing, and can therefore never EVER match how good of a mod it was when it was still fresh, which was in summer 2009.

I could of told you from day 1 of jail launch, this mod will get old and boring, and doesnt have a long timespan. I have to say that I expected jail to fall of the charts about 1,5 years ago, I'm very suprised the server still runs with the amount of players it has.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Shadi »

Well to summerise what you said it's mainly because it was fresh and new..
And that's indeed what I told Laprot on steam..

13:43 - Shadi: the only reason jailbreak was fu nfor everybody back then is coz all knew each other, all were new and thought jb was interesting coz they havent tried
13:43 - Shadi: it hasnt changed much.. cept for ppl's mood

So we come back to the demotivated people right?

mY.RuN jail has a more loose ruleset than nD does, and trust me, as you said, it goes into chaos quite fast.. I tried making the rules there a little bit more tight but they stubbornly stick to most rules as they are.. as I now realise was maybe the right choice .. because all other jail servers are quite strict and it was there to make mY.RuN's unique

Jb might be old but new players try it every day .. you get people that haven't tried every day.. all you need is to spark the motivation into them and let them inherit the abilities you have had, then go to rest... they admire decent commanders as you did back then.. but if they have no decent person to admire, then welcome to the world of simon says :/ :shifty:

If you boost your own mood even though it's much more boring than 2009 because you know it all and it is less free, then bite the sour apple... that is IF you want the community to grow.. mentally..
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Marksel »

Shadi wrote:Well to summerise what you said it's mainly because it was fresh and new..

So we come back to the demotivated people right?
No, no it doesn't AT ALL come down to this.

It comes down to jail not POSSIBLY being as good as it was back then, because there were less rules to restrict creativity.
Jail has existed long enough to pretty much think of every possible game to play within the borders of the rules. There is no 'new' games, there are definitely underplayed games probably, but no new games.
Jail simply isn't interesting anymore because once you've played these games you've seen everything. If you know you've seen everything and you wont come across anything new, then the fun in jail simply goes down a mile. The fun of jail back then was because every time you logged in there was a possibility of finding a neat new game or tactic that could be used. This isn't the case anymore, and this brings down the fun of that it had back then.

It is NOT demotivation, at least not demotivation that can be helped in some way, it is simply that the mod isn't interesting once you've seen everything 2-3 times. The same reason you don't play a singleplayer 10 times in a row, because you already know what is going to happen.

Biting a sour apple for the sake of the community is simply an unrealistic thing to say anyway, this is an online community where apart from a very small amount of people no one cares enough about it to actually make significant sacrifices for it.
Even if people would do this, that still would not change the fact that everyone has seen every game already.

As for the 'for some people it is still new', that doesnt mean he plays with others that are new to the mod. as soon as this 'new' person does something wrong he is ridiculed and/or slain/kicked for breaking the rules, and its not very hard to do something wrong. a new player doesnt experience the mod as a new mod, but as a mod that he doesnt know. the current state of jail isnt very welcoming in the first place anyway, so new players arent very likely to stay unless they come from some other jail community.
Shadi wrote:13:43 - Shadi: it hasnt changed much.. cept for ppl's mood
as for this, if you are holding this as a true statement, you either didnt actually read what I said or just didnt catch anything that was being said propperly.
ALOT HAS CHANGED.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by One Man Army »

the fun in commanding is gone. i dont know if its because there is never a good ct team, or that u can just tell all the time every single ct what to do. its bin like ages ago that i commanded with a decent ct team.
thats why i think people dont use good games, because in the time u are explaining, the noob cts will die and then all the effort is for nothing. and then i lose my feeling for commanding..

what i think is needed, is that the members and regulars, who can command.. show the people how its done ( like we said before ). just stay ct for a map or 2 and have some awesome days. i know for sure that commanding is nice again, when u dont have to worry about how the rest is doing ALL the time, and u can trust another ct with covering ur ass.

thats what i miss, and why i dont like to command that much anymore..
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by xelef »

Well, indeed the mod is old but that doesnt take away all the fun in it.

To take a good example : Diablo 2, Old game but still have alot of fun even though you know the entire game properly there is always something you can do.

my point is simply find the things you can still do, and yes The strict rule set has lowered creativity but not only because of the ruleset also because of the player base, as they changed from the "older" gamers into the youngsters ( not meaning to offend anyone ) the games they want to play also changed, so yes we also need to adapt and try to work our way as members / regulars / admins to get the fun and creativity back into the game, because there is always some new twist you can do thats still allowed within the rules you just need to find them.
I know that some games might sound fun but turns out to be dull but that doesnt mean that that game cant be evolved into a fun game if its simply modified.

ive seen commanders do very (lame) Tricky simon says command by adding multiple stuff into a Global simon says day, and that is in my mind not the very best way ( sure decreases number of Ts alive though ) but yes its not only because of lame / noobish commanders its also because of Over played maps, back when i started JB i was a noob ( to some i properly still am ) but i learned from the commanders such as Qs, East clubber and Agent smith etc. they showed how much you can twist a certain game thats already there into something new"ish" as the most popular name by Agent smith as hes insanity game that ALOT of people failed on even before the game started though it was fun because the round wasnt that long if they wanted to eliminate alot of Ts quickly then the round would also end quickly.

But yes as times change so does people and there expectations towards things.
New playerbase gave : Jbshop ( Rebels paradise shop) Jbcash, Achievments etc. Im not saying all the new stuff is bad, Its what the new playerbase requires of the mod, easier gameplay, less thinking on commanding.
Basicly No-brain games is what the gaming world is turning into
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Shadi »

@ Marksel

No it has not it is the same mod with a different ruleset and a few new plugins, it should not be such a huge change that people leave.

A lot has not changed you just make it look like that by not liking it anymore, if you created Jailbreak back in 09 with this ruleset and the same people as 09 you'd be JUST as intrigued and even more because people actually know more today

no new games? Just give aJ 3 rounds to command with his personal gameset and you will see new games.. new games and improvements for games .. why is that not possible? O_o ...

Anyway I said what I wanted to say... and I think you did as well.. unless you have something significant to add into our argument I don't see why we should proceed.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Marksel »

Shadi wrote:No it has not it is the same mod with a different ruleset and a few new plugins, it should not be such a huge change that people leave.
Do I really need to repeat myself over and over?
It is not the people leaving that has changed, it is the RULES that changed the entire mod.
The RULES limit the jailbreak mod greatly, and THAT is the biggest change.

Also, let me point out that I don't intend to say that everyone should think jb is boring and that everyone should stop playing it, all I am doing is explaining the difference between 09 and now because you pointed out that not having played 09 you don't know what it was like at the time, and am also trying to point out why the problems that exist are there and why they are inevitable.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Shadi »

Marksel wrote:
Shadi wrote:No it has not it is the same mod with a different ruleset and a few new plugins, it should not be such a huge change that people leave.
Do I really need to repeat myself over and over?
It is not the people leaving that has changed, it is the RULES that changed the entire mod.
The RULES limit the jailbreak mod greatly, and THAT is the biggest change.

Also, let me point out that I don't intend to say that everyone should think jb is boring and that everyone should stop playing it, all I am doing is explaining the difference between 09 and now because you pointed out that not having played 09 you don't know what it was like at the time, and am also trying to point out why the problems that exist are there and why they are inevitable.
No I do not know exactly but apparently your opinion isn't coherent with so many others I have asked.

You are not repeating yourself you are intensively defending your opinion, if we unlimit the rules now to what it was back then... then I am 100% sure that the amount of players would drop greatly or the moderator amount would have to increase greatly.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by minna »

Now I only speak for myself, but why I left jailbreak.. I loved to be ct from the day I could be ct. I was really really boring at first cos I wanted to control only for ts. Then at somepoint I realized it should be more fun and I started to do games for ts that are not suppose to only kill them. (Im not saying that im good commander, probably one of the worst but thats something we dont have to discuss on here :D) Then my imagination didnt create any more new games so I thought time to go t. And at t I realized there are not so many good commanders so it came really boring. Kids commanding simon says and so on. I only wanted to rebel and that also gets boring after a while.
So I didnt find anything interesting anymore from that game and now I havent played jb for a month (before I played mostly everyday).
Theres a couple fucking junglecats out here..
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by Ying and Yang »

I got around 300-500 hours (can't remember how much exactly) playtime. At first when I found out it was pretty fun it was new and refreshing from the old mods that I was so used to. Played it so much that I never really lost in lrs anymore. Then it suddenly became.. dull... the same shit every round so I took a break from it, and when I came back nothing really appealed to me anymore. Basically what I'm saying is that I believe many of the old regulars have just had enough of it and got bored as they had seen everything. To me, jailbreak is pretty much dead as I no longer find it enjoyable as I did back when I first found it. Everything ends in time.
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Re: Where is everyone?

Post by SiX »

Ying and Yang wrote:I got around 300-500 hours (can't remember how much exactly) playtime. At first when I found out it was pretty fun it was new and refreshing from the old mods that I was so used to. Played it so much that I never really lost in lrs anymore. Then it suddenly became.. dull... the same shit every round so I took a break from it, and when I came back nothing really appealed to me anymore. Basically what I'm saying is that I believe many of the old regulars have just had enough of it and got bored as they had seen everything. To me, jailbreak is pretty much dead as I no longer find it enjoyable as I did back when I first found it. Everything ends in time.
Maybe time for some new games without lame commanding in the start?
I mean, if there're like 2-5 ts, is it necessary to start simon/smith or anything says then?
and I do think that Sawgame, country game and all these should be played but with some different games/days between them so not the same first/last reactions and everything the same game.
and also if you're making alot of cage days then it would also maybe be a good idea to do a spelling bee or a funday like freeday, rfd, unrestricted fd, global/addupt, emo day, zm day or anything.
roughly said: we should vary between different games/days.
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