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#16 Post Re: Suggestions
uhu wrote:
Permanent toplist is the most demotivating thing that can happen to a new player.

most high ranked players on toplist dont play anymore. And the whole toplist revolves around them and it takes 1 year to earn their points.

Toplist is suposed to motivate players not to adore the godlike 10 players and forget all others.

So toplist should aleays be weekly, monthly is questionable since players easily spend a week other than a month tryharding considering thy have a life.

About players that earned their 100k points over a year well there could be a hall of fame to chill their egos but not keeping this system which clearely demotivates all new players from competing.

do whatever you want, but if something will happen at least with couple amount of my zm points, I'll leave zm member position, nD in general cuz I wouldn't see more sense to play here with such retarded system of changings which doesn't respect my time of playing and all what I achieved. And I will wish to burn in hell all who does this changes. :) You know it can't be more fucking unfair and stupid acts that just use your possibility to ruin somebody's achievements. You can't imagine what it is: to see that all collected for years by you points once would dissapear just cuz some idiots (it's not insult to somebody, just abstract example) which even don't play on zm active cry "they are unreachable, it's too long and hard" Okay, people, if you are not idiots, you should understand that zm toplist is first of all, geek's toplist and it just shows how much time and effort guy have spent on it. It doesn't show who plays better and who is best. So what do you want from this toplist? If it be reseted, there will appear another geeks, which will collect anew huge amount of points and again uhu will say "it's unfair". Where's logic? Why did you base this toplist on such principle then?
Uhu, solve this question as you want, but remember, that private success and results of effort are inviolable. You can't just reset somebody's points even if this player isn't active anymore.
I suggested already monthly or weekly toplist, why do you ignore it? Why is it necessary to spoil somebody's life?
+ I don't understand for whom you try to "improve" this toplist. Most of zm players are kids & nubs, they don't care about ranks. I never ever heard that somebody complained on it. Queen is casual, she doesn't play on zm much and as I quess she will leave thus server after cople of months. What Trump has against this system, I can't understand too. I don't remember him even playing here. All regulars who play on zm much currently are in toplist, btw.
I cannot restain my willing to remind here pukata's reform on rr, so I'll say about it. There was geek toplist too and players were happy. Untill time when toplist here once by his genious idea was moved from collect to kd system. As a result all geeks have stopped to play and new players have no possibility to collect points, cuz it's not dm, where you can make huge serie of killings.And this server in one time lost absolutely all regulars. What I can add to this? :clap:
Uhu, don't repeat his mistake, you and all forum regulars have no clue, what happen on servers irl, you don't play much. Listen better people with huge experience and activity.

Sry for general rude tone, but I can't be tolerant to stupid things, they annoy me so much.


Last edited by Яaven on Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:26 pm
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#17 Post Re: Suggestions
Chill out a bit. No one said they are GOING TO refresh the toplist, there's a reason why I posted these suggetions: so we all can discuss them.
Яaven wrote:
I suggested already monthly or weekly toplist, why do you ignore it? Why is it necessary to spoil somebody's life?

Queen's Revenge wrote:
Nono, I wouldn't reset it, I would transfer it ;)
I do understand what you guys mean and I'm starting to agree the monthly toplist would be enough

Did not ignore the "monthly toplist".
Яaven wrote:
+ I don't understand for whom you try to "improve " this toplist. Most of zm players are kids & nubs, they don't care about ranks.

I do see players typing /rank (and not only the steamers and nonsteam regulars).

As I said before, hearing your opinions convinced me that the monthly toplist + VIP reward would be enough to bring some enthusiasm, since you are a person with lots of experience and activity, I'm sure you know the server is lacking it.


Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:36 pm
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#18 Post Re: Suggestions
quenn, I know that you're smart enough to understand my claims, but I know that other forum aborigenes only like to lick for admins in common stream of ideas. And Uhu or Pukata without any doubts can reset all what you have achieved. You are newbie on nD, you don't know all features of our administration. I'm playing on their servers since 2011. And during this time they fucking twice reseted my score on servers and irreparably ruined third.
First time it was on deathrun, when I achieved first place as nonsteamer. I had 12k points, it's a lot for dr of 2012 year. Then my id has changed, I had no possibility to play on old id and once somebody from admins just removed my old id from 1st place. Fair?
Second time it was when zm plague has removed as server. I had 95k points in toplist. Where is it now? And there was much people who tryed hard to be in top, for example, player 'ente' spent 5-6 hours per day on late zm plague just to achieve first place.
Third time it was on rr. I have now 94k points. But Pukata created minus, it means that you loose points from every death. Ok, by logic you must kill more than die. But I fucking loose 8 points every time when die and only 2 when kill somebody. As I said, rr is not place where you can make huge serie, 3-4 maximum.
So you say to me that you took into account my suggestions? Ok. But this, khe-khe, admins just will remove old toplist and make new 'montly'. I know their methods.

Btw, forgot to add

Uhu, how you can know what will attract players? You even don't play on zm resp to judge what is good. So it's surprisingly that you, basing idk on what, say that 'moving system on time basis' will improve somebody's life. I have just the opposite opinion. Monthly toplist without present is just biggest bullshit. It means that your points will be reseted every new month. And what's purpose to play here than? If all what you have achieved even isn't saved. 2 weeks of free vip? Ok, but this reward get only 1 main geek, and what 100500 other must do?

Listen to me (all in general, but especially, admins). If you are not soulless deaf scum, you must respect your own player's achievements. I suggest to save current toplist and make 3 new - 'monthly', 'weekly' and 'toplist for old players'. The main would still overwall. I think there's no questions about monthly and weekly - all is understandable. But I will explain what is 'toplist for old players' in my understanding. It's toplist for people, who are not active more than 1 month. They must automaticly be moved from current toplist to 'toplist for old players'. And let their rank be freezed here. If they would wish to return, they will be moved again in present top. It must arrange all.


Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:00 pm
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#19 Post Re: Suggestions
The thing about having a permanent toplist is that new players will only play to play that map.
They don't have anything to go for, anything to achieve, because the numbers are so high, that they need to play 200-500 hours to even reach top 50.

By resetting the toplist, they get a new goal. However, all of the points mentioned are true. It would suck to spend 200-500 hours and then having your points reset and put on a list on the forum.
What could be done instead is put a countdown on the list, basically automatically deleting scores of users that have not connected to server within the past 6-12 months.
That would make it only the active player's scores to be saved and those who no longer plays, gets deleted.

A monthly toplist with a 1 week VIP would also give something to chase for.
Achievements would give a 3rd thing to chase for.

So if scores of players who aren't active anymore gets deleted, it would be fair to new players, but also respectful to old players who are still active.

And in terms of those old players coming back and seeing their scores removed, well that tbh doesn't matter much in my opinion, because the only way they got deleted, is if they haven't connected for even a second in the past 6-12 months. Basically counting themselves inactive.


Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:35 pm
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#20 Post Re: Suggestions
Nai wrote:
And in terms of those old players coming back and seeing their scores removed, well that tbh doesn't matter much in my opinion, because the only way they got deleted, is if they haven't connected for even a second in the past 6-12 months. Basically counting themselves inactive.

dude, I'm going to army soon just on 6 months. You wanna say that all what I have collected will be removed?
If you really wanna protect rights of one people, don't infringe the rights of others. How many times I must repeat that you would undesratnd at last: private progress is inviolable, even if it bases on your system. Even if it's progress of person which isn't active now. In another case your 'wise decisions' have no sense. And your administration control doesn't inspire confidence.
Anyway, seems that real nD politics bases on old admin views like 'I'll do whatever I consider 'best for all', no matter what they think'. Sorry, but it's like russian system, from which I ran off to here. It's directly kinda some outrage.

btw about records of inactive players. Look, if someone makes world record for running or jumping in 1962, his achievement must be reseted too cuz he's not active anymore and it's not fair towards to weaker participants?


Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:30 pm
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#21 Post Re: Suggestions
We're a gaming community with a playersbase that needs to be kept entertained and amused.

If we don't focus on new players and give them a chance to meet some goals, they'll just leave and find something else where they can achieve that.
The amount of new players that comes everyday is a lot higher than the few players that become long time regulars and even lower for those who make it to the toplist and then also leaves and yet stays there because they've gotten such high scores.

I get your point towards being fair to our regulars who've spent loads of hours and worked hard to achieve those scores.
But it's not really fair to our constant flowing new playerbase, to keep the scores of players who no longer play and it defeats the goal to get more and more regular players to our community.

We can bicker back and forth about this. But I think that if we go by pure numbers, we should focus on new players, rather than old players.
Keep in mind this doesn't affect anyone who connects within 6-12 months.
Meaning it would only be the players who haven't joined the server for 6-12 months.
Could make this 12 months, meaning the ones who haven't joined in 12 months, their scores would be deleted.


Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:09 am
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#22 Post Re: Suggestions
I got to agree with raven on this one. As I already wrote about in an earlier reply, the people who currently sits at the top of the toplist has put in the time and effort to get there. It doesn't matter if they aren't active anymore or if they only play once a year. Removing them from the toplist and start from scratch ruins all what they have achieved and just isn't fair.

I see that few of you has compared this with sports. A person doesn't loose a record, unless its beaten of course, just because he retired. Someone has to beat it and push him down the lists. It might seem like it will be impossible for new players to get there, but it just means that they have to put in the hours all the current people on the toplist has. If they are not prepared to do this then they dont deserve to be on the toplist.

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Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:53 am
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#23 Post Re: Suggestions
Regarding the toplist, I can kinda agree with both sides here. On the one hand there are the hard workig top players that have dedicated a lot of hours to get there. On the other hand, there are the new players that can really get demotivated if they are aware that it's so difficult to reach there.

The thing is that usually the average player, the client in this case, is "lazy" and wants achievable goals. So ranking resets are interesting in order to have more competition. If you want to compare it with sports why don't you pick football for example? Or tennis? Where there's a competition each year. You could add a hall of fame to the stats maybe and leave there the X best players of previous years, give a prize to the winners of each "season", etc. so that their effort has some kind of retribution, but other than that toplist resets are good way to make more players stay and bring some nice competition to the servers.


Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:19 am

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#24 Post Re: Suggestions
Can't believe this is still being discussed.
Those who are on the top of the toplist have put more time and effort then you did. It has nothing to do with when they played, before or now.

And a HoF, as Queen suggested, would just make it unnecessarily complicated.

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Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:35 am
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#25 Post Re: Suggestions
Dee Dee wrote:
Regarding the toplist, I can kinda agree with both sides here. On the one hand there are the hard workig top players that have dedicated a lot of hours to get there. On the other hand, there are the new players that can really get demotivated if they are aware that it's so difficult to reach there.

The thing is that usually the average player, the client in this case, is "lazy" and wants achievable goals. So ranking resets are interesting in order to have more competition. If you want to compare it with sports why don't you pick football for example? Or tennis? Where there's a competition each year. You could add a hall of fame to the stats maybe and leave there the X best players of previous years, give a prize to the winners of each "season", etc. so that their effort has some kind of retribution, but other than that toplist resets are good way to make more players stay and bring some nice competition to the servers.

I always wonder when people which are not related to something, easy leave their opinion a la 'fuck it, let's ruin all'. Omg, dee dee, I saw you on zm resp only once and you was playing here less than 1 hour. How you can know what brings competition there?
I already said maybe 3 times that achievements for average players, monthly toplist for nubs will be enough. Do not need to intervene in matters that do not concern you, in our case it's somebody's ranks. No, enough. I'm tired to explain to different geniuses basic things as 'it's not yours, you can't claim to what belongs to others' - 'no, it's unfair, they have all, I haven't anything'. I only will say that every such step - it's nail in the coffin of nD. Ofc, you can neglect to views of your regulars, but eventually don't wonder that there's 'toxic' atmosphere in the community.


Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:58 am
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#26 Post Re: Suggestions
Resetting toplist is something i don't do unless a server was closed or re-opened. I have once before deleted stats for players who were inactive for a whole year, but its a complicated process that i haven't done since 2013. When i made the toplist way back in 2010/2011 i ensured the players at the time (and still do) that no reset will ever occur on any server, unless the server closes. Stat reset is therefore veto'ed from my side, and is not up for discussion.

Monthly toplist is not something i intend to bring back, since players on other servers with toplist can request the exact same thing, and would be unfair if they didn't get it, if ZR has it. Monthly toplist requires an admin to reset the toplist and give out vip every month, and there are periods where i dont have time for nD, and the reset is therfore done few days or a weeks delay. So im going to save myself the trouble and say this is not something i will consider.

Яaven wrote:
I cannot restain my willing to remind here pukata's reform on rr, so I'll say about it. There was geek toplist too and players were happy. Untill time when toplist here once by his genious idea was moved from collect to kd system. As a result all geeks have stopped to play and new players have no possibility to collect points, cuz it's not dm, where you can make huge serie of killings.And this server in one time lost absolutely all regulars. What I can add to this? :clap:


These features were added because new casual players were utterly destroyed, and keept leaving the server, because the pros would just rack up noobie kills. As a result there was an unbalance in the sense that, if you didnt have the skill, or a powerfull PC that could get you above 100FPS, you had 0 chance on the server and couldnt play long enough to have some fun. Eventually we added underworld which fixed this issue, by allowing noobies to play in another "world" and i didnt get around to tweaking the points and fps_override restriction until about a week ago: viewtopic.php?p=485466#p485466
The server did better for a while in the sense that players stayed for longer, but after the summer it died out, as most nD servers do around this time of the year, so i switched it back now.
System still looks much similar on how stats work on DM, however you only loose maximum of 4 points, if the player has over 100 points, and your points are more then twice as much as his.

Ammopack should be working now. It only seemed to work when you disconnected, and the time was 00:00. As for server crashes, impossible to restore AP's from that, since crashes are unexpected, and plugins have no time to react to it. Same 10 player rule applies here, like /bank.

No new VIP skins will be added, because we need to have a stable amount of so called "precache slots" (that is things like models, sounds, sprites take up). Maps and plugins takes up some of these "precache slots", and every server has a hardcoded limit of 512 (default cs precaches takes up to 450 slots alone). We are very close to that limit, and if we add too many models, we have 0 space left if we were to add a map in the future with some models in it, or any other extention that require one of these "precache slots". With 0 space left, the server crashes.


Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:20 pm
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#27 Post Re: Suggestions
It's ok Raven your stats shouldn't be deleted in any way it's hard work that should stay, such as changing toplist to weekly/monthly. But you can quit membership no one stops you 8-)

You guys forget that the toplist players are 100, and about 20 are active; while the playerbase is something around 400-900 players. It's illogical to have a fun game just for the first ones.


Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:01 pm
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#28 Post Re: Suggestions
uhu wrote:
It's ok Raven your stats shouldn't be deleted in any way it's hard work that should stay, such as changing toplist to weekly/monthly. But you can quit membership no one stops you 8-)

ye I know that all what I have posted sounds bit rude and toxic, but this suggestion about reseting score just annoyed me neither one thing before. Never would have thought that so many people are ready to do it with no doubt. And... You shouldn't take serious all what I write, cuz it's mostly not true. Something is kinda trolling, but in general, just emotions which in some cases like this one I don't hide.


Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:30 pm
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#29 Post Re: Suggestions
Pukata wrote:
No new VIP skins will be added, because we need to have a stable amount of so called "precache slots" (that is things like models, sounds, sprites take up). Maps and plugins takes up some of these "precache slots", and every server has a hardcoded limit of 512 (default cs precaches takes up to 450 slots alone). We are very close to that limit, and if we add too many models, we have 0 space left if we were to add a map in the future with some models in it, or any other extention that require one of these "precache slots". With 0 space left, the server crashes.

What about replacing them?
Also, sometimes you can't join the server (even if you try 10 times) because it says "reliable channel overflowed", checked with some people and they also get this. What could it be?


Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:30 pm
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#30 Post Re: Suggestions
Queen's Revenge wrote:
Pukata wrote:
No new VIP skins will be added, because we need to have a stable amount of so called "precache slots" (that is things like models, sounds, sprites take up). Maps and plugins takes up some of these "precache slots", and every server has a hardcoded limit of 512 (default cs precaches takes up to 450 slots alone). We are very close to that limit, and if we add too many models, we have 0 space left if we were to add a map in the future with some models in it, or any other extention that require one of these "precache slots". With 0 space left, the server crashes.

What about replacing them?
Also, sometimes you can't join the server (even if you try 10 times) because it says "reliable channel overflowed", checked with some people and they also get this. What could it be?


Usually happens on roundstart when the zombie mod resets itself, and has to set models back on every single player on the server. If too much is going on, too much information is sent to every player, which causes the player to overflow and disconnect. Yet another reason why we don't need more models. As for replacement, i need a wide opinion from all the VIPs on the server, who should decide whether they want to replace a skin. The skins were picked because of their uniqueness and quality, and some of the models presented on this topic are not of the highest quality when it comes to animations.


Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:51 pm
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