Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Moderator: J4ck

Bob Vegana
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:28 am
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by Bob Vegana »

I feel like Simon Says is being played wrong by several commanders (even members) lately when it comes to the case of when it's, for example, "Simon Says I'm Smith". For some reason, the commander saying that command is still considered as Simon, which is completely illogical.

Logically, "Simon Says" is only the default phrase that triggers the game, it doesn't declare you Simon in ANY way. The next 2 words are the important ones, from which is depended whenever you're Simon, Smith, Richard etc. In this case, "Simon Says I'm Smith" should mean that the commander is Smith, because it ain't said anywhere that the Commander is Simon, the only thing that makes you Simon is "I'm Simon" immediately after "Simon Says". You just can't call yourself Simon out of the blue when you just called yourself Smith.
Last edited by Bob Vegana on Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
These users thanked the author Bob Vegana for the post:
Lite sensei
User avatar
Konijn
neonDragon Admin
Posts: 4196
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:15 am
Has thanked: 99 times
Been thanked: 375 times

Re: Issue with Simon. Being played wrong.

Post by Konijn »

Leftover wrote:I feel like Simon Says is being played wrong by several commanders (even members) lately when it comes to the case of when it's, for example, "Simon Says I'm Smith". For some reason, the commander saying that command is still considered as Simon, which is completely illogical.

Logically, "Simon Says" is only the default phrase that triggers the game, it doesn't declare you Simon in ANY way. The next 2 words are the important ones, from which is depended whenever you're Simon, Smith, Richard etc. In this case, "Simon Says I'm Smith" should mean that the commander is Smith, because it ain't said anywhere that the Commander is Simon, the only thing that makes you Simon is "I'm Simon" immediately after "Simon Says". You just can't call yourself Simon out of the blue when you just called yourself Smith.

If the only thing a commander says is "Simon says I'm Smith" then they are neither Simon nor Smith as this is an invalid way to start the game.

You can ONLY start the game by saying:

We're going to play Smith/Simon says.

Or

Simon/Smith says I'm Simon/Smith

If they first start the game with one of the valid ways, e.g. "We're going to play Simon says. Simon says I'm Smith", then they are now Smith.

I can't comment on particular events without seeing a recording of what actually happened.
These users thanked the author Konijn for the post:
Lite sensei
Image
User avatar
Chuzkuz
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:48 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Issue with Simon. Being played wrong.

Post by Chuzkuz »

CT's use the command '' We're going to play Simon says, i'm smith'' as a way to trick the t's which is pretty logical and not wrong in any way. I'v put the sentences in colors so you don't get confused :) and if you still don't get it, the command basically is simon and saying i'm smith without the valid command which is ''simon says i'm smith''
These users thanked the author Chuzkuz for the post:
kami (GER]
Image

.....
kami (GER]
Posts: 4317
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 203 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Issue with Simon. Being played wrong.

Post by kami (GER] »

Chuzkuz wrote:CT's use the command '' We're going to play Simon says, i'm smith'' as a way to trick the t's which is pretty logical and not wrong in any way. I'v put the sentences in colors so you don't get confused :) and if you still don't get it, the command basically is simon and saying i'm smith without the valid command which is ''simon says i'm smith''
atleast this is what was used as trick today several times and plenty Ts fell for it. if thats what hunie is talking about.
else, saying "simon says im smith" without being simon doesnt make you simon nor smith, you basically didnt start the game with it.
Image Image
Bob Vegana
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:28 am
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Issue with Simon. Being played wrong.

Post by Bob Vegana »

kami (GER] wrote:
Chuzkuz wrote:CT's use the command '' We're going to play Simon says, i'm smith'' as a way to trick the t's which is pretty logical and not wrong in any way. I'v put the sentences in colors so you don't get confused :) and if you still don't get it, the command basically is simon and saying i'm smith without the valid command which is ''simon says i'm smith''
atleast this is what was used as trick today several times and plenty Ts fell for it. if thats what hunie is talking about.
else, saying "simon says im smith" without being simon doesnt make you simon nor smith, you basically didnt start the game with it.
Could have missed it, but today I've only heard "Simon Says I'm Smith" alone. That's why such bother from my part.

Although now I see the "We're going to play Simon Says." bit is the trigger command for the game as well. Never knew about that one since I barely ever play Simon Says at all myself. Kind of a weird way to trigger the game though, I'll say. "We're going to play ..." does occasionally come out of commander's mic as a casual common phrase on pretty much every game.
User avatar
ZeRo#1
neonDragon Admin
Posts: 3041
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:31 pm
Location: Germany-Berlin
Has thanked: 269 times
Been thanked: 181 times

Re: Issue with Simon. Being played wrong.

Post by ZeRo#1 »

Maybe you opend the topic bcs of me since I used it today.
You have 2 ways to start simon:

"Simon says, I'm Simon" or "We are going to play Simon says"
So if you would start Simon in the 2nd way and add a thing after it you just started being Simon by saying "We are going to play Simon says" then all after that is nothing you have to listen to. Important is the part which made him to Simon. That means "We are going to play Simon says, I'm Smith" it's just a tricky one where you just started being Simon on which many fail. To switch to Smith in this case you then have to say like usually "Simon says, I'm Smith" after you started making yourself in the right way to Simon.

It probably would be easier to understand for all if you would say "We are going to play Smiths says, I'm Simon" where you in this case are Smith then.
Image <--- n1 Shadi
Image
Image
Image
Image
Spoiler!
[youtube]GayFTExPz3g[/youtube]
Bob Vegana
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:28 am
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by Bob Vegana »

So that settles it, thanks, y'all!
-------------------------
As for the 2ndary issue, scenario is like this or similar-
Cage day. All the T's were sent to the cage. All are in the cage then.
For now, the latest legit command was for all T's to stay inside the cage.
Then, simon says is legitimately started, but first command that comes out from the commander is a trick/invalid one.

The trick commands that all have issues in this case are as follows -
.Line up in the middle of the cage at the entrance
.Line up at the backwall/wall inside the cage

What I've always seen in all cases is T's getting killed for obeying these trick commands. The reason why this is wrong is -
These T's obeying the trick command ARE ALREADY OBEYING THE LATEST TRUE PRIMARY COMMAND! Which was simply staying inside the cage.At this point T's are allowed to be anywhere they want inside the cage, no restriction, therefore, the trick commands shown in the examples should be VOID, they shouldn't exist, they have no function and priority. But instead, CT's insta-kill everyone that has obeyed this trick commands although there's no reason for those T's to NOT be there, because the whoke inside of the cage is unrestricted for them since being inside was the last legit command given.

Same issue can be said about similar occasions pretty mych in any spot where the last valid command was to inside it, without any lining up or touching walls.
kami (GER]
Posts: 4317
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 203 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by kami (GER] »

as soon as simon says is started failing to follow a legit command or following a wrong command is getting you killed. even if you are already standing in the position the commander is going to sent all ts with a false command you ll get killed because you are in that moment following the false command.

i ve always said that i dont like that there doesnt need to be a valid command first but the rule never got changed i guess.
Image Image
User avatar
Konijn
neonDragon Admin
Posts: 4196
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:15 am
Has thanked: 99 times
Been thanked: 375 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by Konijn »

You can find the full rules for Simon says in the Jailbreak guide, I have copied the first part of it which addresses the valid ways to start Simon and also explains how following commands not started with Simon says will result in death.
Simon says:
Simon says is a game played on Jailbreak. The rules for this game is important to understand as it will make the overall game play fair. The game is started by a CT declaring he/she is Simon, either by saying "Simon says I'm Simon" or by saying the "We are going to play Simon Says" has begun.

After the commander has made themselves Simon, only the commands which begins with "Simon says" are valid. Ts who fail to do these commands are killed. Any other commands which DO NOT begin with Simon and are followed by the Ts results in the Ts being killed and also the failure of the game on their behalf. The goal of this game is to trick the Ts by switching between valid and invalid commands.
Image
Bob Vegana
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:28 am
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by Bob Vegana »

results in the Ts being killed and also the failure of the game on their behalf
Indeed, but what sucks is that the command before the invalid one, as shown in my example, was to be inside the cage, everybody completed and obeyed it, and remains as the last legit command so far. Meaning that being in the middle/at the backwall of the cage is always allowed for T's to stay at until the next valid command is given. Trick commands like "line up in the middle of the cage" when the last legit command was to stay inside the cage without a certain area are just... empty air.

Meh, just goes to show y'all that Simon is a very sucky-sucky game.
User avatar
ZeRo#1
neonDragon Admin
Posts: 3041
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:31 pm
Location: Germany-Berlin
Has thanked: 269 times
Been thanked: 181 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by ZeRo#1 »

Leftover wrote:
results in the Ts being killed and also the failure of the game on their behalf
Indeed, but what sucks is that the command before the invalid one, as shown in my example, was to be inside the cage, everybody completed and obeyed it, and remains as the last legit command so far. Meaning that being in the middle/at the backwall of the cage is always allowed for T's to stay at until the next valid command is given. Trick commands like "line up in the middle of the cage" when the last legit command was to stay inside the cage without a certain area are just... empty air.

Meh, just goes to show y'all that Simon is a very sucky-sucky game.
I get what you mean with that. But it is still a "game" where you have to pay attention. As the rule guide explained it it is a mix of valid and invalid commands to trick the T's "The goal of this game is to trick the Ts by switching between valid and invalid commands."

Simple thing:
Valid command you don't follow = kill
Invalid command you follow = kill

In this case he is Simon and says go to the middle of the cage = invalid command you follow = kill.
Image <--- n1 Shadi
Image
Image
Image
Image
Spoiler!
[youtube]GayFTExPz3g[/youtube]
User avatar
SNap
VIP
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:51 am
Has thanked: 138 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by SNap »

Its a tricky game, you have to listen carefully when the cts are getting tired of rebels they always and always use invalid commands to kill the ts.

Btw, switching from smith says to simon is allowed also right (forgot that one)
Image

“Make your lives a masterpiece, you only get one canvas.”
User avatar
zapt0r
neonDragon Admin
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:06 am
Has thanked: 128 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by zapt0r »

Added a few frequently asked Simon queries here - http://www.neondragon.net/viewtopic.php ... 90#p527190
Regards,
zapt0r
kami (GER]
Posts: 4317
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:00 am
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 203 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by kami (GER] »

are you guys not reading what hunie and i said? you are way off what he wants to be discussed in here. its about the rule that the first command after declaring yourself simon can be an invalid command.
These users thanked the author kami (GER] for the post:
Bob Vegana
Image Image
Bob Vegana
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:28 am
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 61 times

Re: Issue with Simon. 2ndary issue - locationary problem (check the 7th reply)

Post by Bob Vegana »

ZeRo did clear that up though, I guess. (The 2ndary issue).
But it stills leaves my exampled situation lookin odd.
Locked

Return to “Jailbreak Trash”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests