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#436 Post Re: Assassins XII: Power Up! Isolate
Ultor wrote:
Have u guys noticed that MMage has 666 posts?

he is the devil taco. What do you expect?

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Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:21 pm
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#437 Post Re: Assassins XII: Power Up! Isolate
I procrastinated on this post for about 3 days, it was sitting at around 90% done when I slapped an ending onto it and decided to post.



Considering that I had a unique view into the actions of every team individually, and the game as whole, I think I can shed some light:


Pretty much everything you guys are arguing about boils down to:

1. Panda
2. Lack of Teamwork/Co-ordination on Maf T1 + Village for most of the game, and on Maf T2's side very very late in the game, almost causing them to throw.
3. Failing to understand the kind of stance necessary to win

Let's take it from the top:

1. Panda honestly screwed things up for his team -- not just because he revealed himself + Rainboy to Sweedy, which is a mistake that sometimes happens with new players (and tbh since it sounds like it happened r0, I might have considered a re-roll if he had told me or even his team what happened -- PLEASE communicate with your host if something like this happens or at least your team) -- but because he really failed to do anything ABOUT that mistake. Honestly, I'm disappointed in him for seemingly not trying -- only making 1 short post really for every round he was living. Furthermore, he completely failed to do anything with his soothsayer status, not voting or even speaking in crucial situations -- up until Rainboy died, pretty much nobody thought Panda was a mafia and that perception could have been very helpful in misleading the other two teams if panda had, y'know, actually talked.



2.

Co-ordination and teamwork is always a big problem for the village in /any/ mafia game, don't get me wrong-- but in this game, there was an extra heap of village failure to co-ordinate, starting with Round 0, where Rainboy was the only one to make a full analysis of all Base Powers, including recommendations for other players.

Villagers also heavily dropped the ball on picking team-centric powers -- the only Insight in the game was taken by Leo, a mafia (though he never got to use it due to being perma-vixened). Honestly, this would have been a very, very different game for the village if there was just 1 insight, 1 blast shield, and 1 hinder instead of the host of soothsayers + other crap the village took.

Voro and Arsenic did well with their base power picks -- but not with their choices AFTER their picks. While I admire ARSENIC's accuracy on his shots, he took little time to wait for more info/co-ordinate with other villagers. A better strategy would probably have been to shoot once to prove himself, then claim publicly. His fortitude + the Doc could keep him protected for at least 2 rounds afterward, all the while ensuring each mafia would have only 1 frameblock (Assuming they were smart and both mafia teams kept him perma-roleblocked after). An earlier pro-village claim (or even a massclaim of base powers after R2 would have been VERY helpful for villagers, and yet I saw nothing on that front) would have done wonders for actually linking villagers together.



Voro, as mentioned by ultor, didn't reveal himself to his r0 until R3. However, Ultor made MAJOR mistakes:

A. He claimed Cop AFTER ARSENIC had already claimed Vig in the thread, needlessly putting himself in danger, instead of contacting ARSENIC and relaying to him that the cop had peeked two maf. ARSENIC had an uncontested Vig claim, and was indeed the best choice for village co-ordination.

B. He revealed Voro's Poulo as the cop. At least one member from BOTH Mafia teams (Maki and Rainboy, I think they were) deducted this immediately from his post because he claimed the still-living Voro was his r0 negative. Which would then beg the question: If your r0 Neg was still alive, why wouldn't you have him claim as the R0 neg instead of outing yourself as the cop to be roleblocked/killed? It didn't add up logically, so the conclusion was reached on both maf teams that Voro had to be cop.

C. He insisted on a Leo lynch. Now, this wasn't completely his fault -- Leo had been peeked as Maf T2 because of the Vixen's frameblock on him. So Ultor understandably thought he was lynching one of the other team. Regardless, Ultor bragging about how he'd "eliminated one of the mafia teams" was not something to be proud of at all, because it was the wrong way of looking at the game (See: point #3 below)




Now, as for mafia Team 1, they obviously had a communication breakdown between:

-Panda being afk and impossible to reach
-Leo also being impossible to reach due to IRL stuff
-Rainboy and katcrusader not being on each other's respective mediums (Ts + Steam vs. skype + discord)

However, unlike T2 who had a similar problem (Wayward and maki weren't on steam) and found a solution to it by asking me to make a quicktopic for them, which I did, Team1 seemed to make very little co-ordinated effort to communicate with each other over the course of the game.


Meanwhile, throughout the first part of the game Mafia Team 2 did pretty darn well. They made some good decisions, manipulated lynches, and overall did the things necessary to kill off other players and keep their teammates alive. Special props to Lawliet for being the only person to IMMEDIATELY arrive at the correct conclusion after Rainboy's soothsayer flip -- all the information was there, but Lawliet was able to piece it together into the only logical explanation:

Spoiler: show
Rain was brutalized. Brutal -- Can survive with Fortitude, Trainee Tough, or Blast Shield.
When we peeked Rain the result was: Lawliet investigates Rainboy, finding him Immune.
When the results of R2 came out he said he picked Fortitude early because he expected to be shot early by the mafia (check his ISO#21).
R3 results: Rainboy was a Soothsayer and is able to speak after death and vote.
The only valid explanation: Rain is the Tough Trainee. He started with immunity as his base power.. gained soothsayer from Panda's death. Survived brutal because of his passive.


However, communication broke down in this last round, where Numble kinda went insanely derp and actually started believing Rain's claims, despite pretty much his entire team screaming not to. There were some bad analyses of the situation, and had wayward not thrown in his action in the last moment to protect himself, this would have been a very different game.


3. A fundamental misunderstanding of how to win this setup:

You all heard me so many times when I said that opposing teams would have to manipulate each other well and communication/deal-making would be key to winning the game. It seems that most people ignored this advice and kind of did their own thing the same way they would work with an ordinary mafia game (e.g. ignoring the fact there were 3 teams vying for position instead of a binary "village vs. mafia" setup. Most players (especially Ultor and k0ntra) ignored the fact that completely focusing on eliminating one maf team while ignoring the other makes it very easy for the other mafia team to win unopposed.

Tbh, the first I saw of any kind of teamwork with a known member of an unfriendly team was with Rainboy and Emziek, though this was after they'd died and it was already too late to do jack shit about it (even though they got were really close from just a relatively small amount of teamwork -- imagine what might have happened if they'd started to work together on the previous round).



tl;dr: Most of the things that people think went wrong for their side aren't as bad as they think.

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