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#1 Post Who do admins answer to?
I'll try to keep this as civil as possible as my posts are moderated and require approval from the admins this post intends to criticize.

With an absent owner that seems to have lost interest in his own community, the admins are the highest power. What happens when those admins fail to fulfill their obligations?

Neondragon has been stagnant for sometime and things aren't looking bright. Who's to blame? The admins. Admins are nothing more than empty shells, claiming they want to help but do not put in the work. We're all busy. We've all got lives, work, school. That is no excuse. You either can do the job, or you resign and let someone else step up. The servers are dying one by one as the players look on helplessly.

Another contributing factor is the animosity within the admin team. Things aren't as rosy as they once were. If you're putting in hours of work only to be told by other idling admins their votes outweigh your vote and you can't move on with your plans, how would you feel? You might start a new jailbreak in some obscure game, but is that what NeonDragon needs? The decision making process needs to change, those that put in the work must have a higher command. Reward work, not past achievements.

tl;dr Inactive admins must resign for the community to progress. It's about time new members stepped up. What would a NeonDragon under the leadership of Silence look like?

Discuss.

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Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:31 pm
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#2 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
For once you are able to make a post without your usual obnoxious attitude - seems like the moderated group is working out for you.

Quoting ko9 - he pretty much sums it up. As for neonDragon, he'll have to answer that himself.

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Look, I can't stress enough just how much time and effort being an admin takes. You're expected to be as active, or more active on the servers as members. On top of that you generally have to deal with over 20 different queries a day all of which requires time to talk to parties involved, investigate etc. Then you have to read threads on the forums, sometimes discuss with other admins aspects of posts or circumstances behind bans or incidents between members/players. There is an awful lot involved which people just don't realise until they're in that position and on top of that you then have to deal with hate from people who disagree with your (and other admins) decisions. There is a reason why newly promoted admins quickly go inactive and that's because they realise just how much of a shitty job it is.

One of the reasons why we're so reluctant to promote members to admins is because there's a much bigger potential to cause damage to the servers and the community and it's harder to spot abuse and deal with abuse from admins than it is from members. Another reason is because the decisions admins make regarding things like judging the outcomes of reports or forum altercations, deciding what members to recruit and other decisions which affect the direction the community goes in are much broader things which require critical thinking and non-bias. Another reason is that these traits or other traits that are sought after for admins need to be demonstrated, consistently, on the forums and on the servers before we'll be happy to entrust admin to people.

As far as members that could have been promoted, it's difficult to comment on individual people because I don't want to offend people but generally when people are brought up specifically for "why hasn't XYZ been promoted" there are reasons why and it's not like we don't want to recruit admins. I've been saying for years that we need fresh blood in the admin team but it's very difficult to find people to fill those positions - which are basically unpaid jobs, especially when as most people seem to agree the general quality of applicants seems to be declining and thus the pool of candidates to promote.


Ideally, we would have highly active members and admins, but no we don't. We got to make due with what we have . If someone think they could do a better job they are all free to apply for member and go from there.

As for who admins answer to - neonDragon leaves us to do most of the decision-making in his absence. However, we do have internal debates and discussion regarding decisions and thereby answer to other admins/ourselves. More significant decisions are left for discussion, whereas day-to-day operations are handled singlehandedly.

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Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:11 pm
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#3 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
Dune wrote:
Neondragon has been stagnant for sometime and things aren't looking bright. Who's to blame? The admins. Admins are nothing more than empty shells, claiming they want to help but do not put in the work. We're all busy. We've all got lives, work, school. That is no excuse. You either can do the job, or you resign and let someone else step up. The servers are dying one by one as the players look on helplessly.

I don't feel like targeting admin team is right.
In a server made by those mentioned above, you would claim them to be the cause of our problem, but.
Everyone in the current admin team used to be a regular player like we all once used to be.
They are just this small part of the community that decided to sacrifice their own private time for the rest of players to keep the server alive.
Like mentioned, NeonDragon left the server for its own.
If the current admin team stepped down, who would take over?
You need to consider the fact, that daily affairs like reports, moderating server in the game can be taken over, but there is another staff like coding and some more, that requires more skills. If someone feels like being able to help with such staff, then we will have the candidate to step up. But for now, I didn't hear about any - that's the thing.
For now, the community in fact belongs to PLAYERS, not the owner anymore - that's what I reckon.
We all need to take the responsibility for it, If we want it to survive the worse days.
All regulars may help in their own way and all of them may step up - the path is open since always.


Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:42 am
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#4 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
Admins answer to me.

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Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:38 pm
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#5 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
neonDragon is still financing the server massively, y'all shouldn't forget this, I don't think someone here currently would be able to support it with the required finance.
I underestimated this myself but after a private talk I realise he's either wealthy enough to not care or passionate to keep the server going, even non-active.

Respect to you Alex.

Inactive admins has happend the past year or 2.
I don't think beside zero and maybe voodoo theres any proper member to take up an admin position.

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Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:03 pm
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#6 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
You are right and I respect that fact a lot.
Although it doesn't change the another fact, that admin team is in charge at the moment, and I feel no sorrow about it, just saying how it is.


Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:45 pm
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#7 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
zapt0r / ko9 wrote:
--snip--


You're risk averse and you're shielding yourself from criticism with your claims. Neither are good leadership traits. A functioning community requires three attributes to function. Standards and accountability, long term planning, recruitment and mentorship. I fail to see all three in NeonDragon. Perhaps they existed at some point, but that's irrelevant. You're not making due with what you have, but I'll get to that later.

1. The standards you listed are not upheld. The administrators not fulfilling those obligations are not stripped of their rank. They no longer help, but maintain the authority. You can have one administrator do a lot of work, only for another not so active administrator to make a decision that negatively impacts that work. All the work that went into TF2 Jailbreak could've went into 1.6 Jailbreak. When I joined Uhu was working hard on the server, implementing new ideas, working with the players. I get banned for a week, I come back and Uhu is working on a new project and he seems completely uninterested in 1.6 Jailbreak. Someone has to ask Uhu what went wrong.

There is no accountability because of the rank structure. There is no "leader". The current structure might have worked in the past, but I'm sure not all administrators were equal in authority, and I'm sure more work was getting done. There needs to be one person holding a rank with authoritative power that can not be vetoed even by the administrators. You trust that one person to do what is best for the server, if they do not you demote them. If you want efficiency, there must always be one person with authoritative power to make final decisions. Every country has a president of some sorts, not just a "team", for good reasons.

Here is what I would like to see:

Owner & Board of Directors: Inactive owner and indispensable inactive administrators. They can sit at the top and make decisions only when necessary. Their activity will not directly impact the community. NeonDragon, Pukata, Konjin, Regit.

Head Administrator: Voted on by the administrators and board of directors. Oversees the server they're assigned to and everything for that specific server must go through them. Held accountable if things do not progress.

Administrators: Responsible for day-to-day operation of the community.

2. A head administrator brings in long term planning. Knowing their decisions can not be vetoed will allow the head administrator to be fully invested into their vision for the server and the work that comes along with it.

3. Leaders must help develop other leaders. I see signs of self defeating behavior, you convinced yourself no one is good enough. You want people to come to you begging for administrator, but what you should be doing is recruiting new administrators or members and mentoring them about the way of NeonDragon. Help them with their shortcomings, give them a trial period. If you can not develop leaders, you've failed as a leader. Look up the US army's leader development to understand why failure to bring through new leaders comes from the top, not the bottom. How many players that could have made the jump were ignored?

tl;dr Administrators must adapt, things that worked in the past will not necessarily work now. Authority should be earned, more work should equal more authority. New administrators should be recruited and members should be groomed for administrator.

Silence wrote:
I don't feel like targeting admin team is right.
In a server made by those mentioned above, you would claim them to be the cause of our problem, but.
Everyone in the current admin team used to be a regular player like we all once used to be.
They are just this small part of the community that decided to sacrifice their own private time for the rest of players to keep the server alive.
Like mentioned, NeonDragon left the server for its own.
If the current admin team stepped down, who would take over?
You need to consider the fact, that daily affairs like reports, moderating server in the game can be taken over, but there is another staff like coding and some more, that requires more skills. If someone feels like being able to help with such staff, then we will have the candidate to step up. But for now, I didn't hear about any - that's the thing.
For now, the community in fact belongs to PLAYERS, not the owner anymore - that's what I reckon.
We all need to take the responsibility for it, If we want it to survive the worse days.
All regulars may help in their own way and all of them may step up - the path is open since always.


Xalus is already taking care of the coding. Uhu was coding as well. Other members like Hadi have expressed interest in helping but were told to wait for over a month now. Coding for 1.6 isn't that difficult, even someone like Jessi can learn how to code.

The administrators just don't seem motivated to do any work. I think you'd make a great administrator Silence. You're mature, active, and as long as you're CT Jailbreak keeps going. Can any administrator tell us what Silence lacks? It would be good for him and others to see where he stands and what he needs to work on.

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Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:21 pm
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#8 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
I agree with you that the current leadership structure is not ideal nor optimal. The workload for each admin is not balanced and the distinction between responsibilities are somewhat lacking. We are trying to have some degree of decentralisation. The chain of command you are describing works good in theory, for a community with a highly active, engaged, and large leadership. However, that will not work in this community, at least not for now. Firstly we are strongly lacking (motivated) manpower. The recruitment of members have stagnated, which is our first line of "help". Finding qualified people to recruit to the team becomes harder and harder. A result of a declining player base of cs 1.6, accompanied by a drastic decline in the average age and English speaking new players. We do want to recruit as many people as possible, however, we do not want to decrease our member/staff standards as that would lower the community standards as a whole.

You are right that leaders must help develop other leaders. We urge people we see capable to apply for member, but we are not recruiting anyone without them applying. It simply has to be something they want to do by their own will. We are also quite lenient to give out member-trials to people with potential. We also follow up the trials with guidance and education where needed to ensure they get a smooth transition. A golden rule though, act like a member/admin to become a member/admin - before you actually get it, not after.

Once a solid member foundation is established we can start looking at who's capable of being an admin. We are simply looking for consistency and ofc capabilities. If you can prove consistent hard work and loyalty towards the community, at the same time as you show critical thinking and good decision-making - admin will not be far out of reach.

Quote:
One of the reasons why we're so reluctant to promote members to admins is because there's a much bigger potential to cause damage to the servers and the community and it's harder to spot abuse and deal with abuse from admins than it is from members. Another reason is because the decisions admins make regarding things like judging the outcomes of reports or forum altercations, deciding what members to recruit and other decisions which affect the direction the community goes in are much broader things which require critical thinking and non-bias. Another reason is that these traits or other traits that are sought after for admins need to be demonstrated, consistently, on the forums and on the servers before we'll be happy to entrust admin to people.


Quote:
tl;dr Administrators must adapt, things that worked in the past will not necessarily work now. Authority should be earned, more work should equal more authority. New administrators should be recruited and members should be groomed for administrator.


I fully agree on your statement here ^. We are adapting, and have been doing so much more lately than what has been the norm of nd.

As for inactive admins/members. We have a minimum-activity requirement for admins, involving doing various tasks in-game/forums/discord - just like for members. However, those requirements are not currently enforced. Members are given a warning if they fail to meet these requirements, and are eventually kicked from the team respectively. The inactive admins you are mentioning have been a part of nD since its origin. They built the foundation of nD and are still doing so, though at a slower pace. Do you think it is fair that someone who "worked" for the community for +10 years should be kicked just because they take some time off and have inactive periods? Every single one of them is doing nD related tasks behind the scenes and have been doing so for years. Without them, this community would not function. Their superior experience in what goes into maintaining and running this community heavily compensate for their "inactivity". Remember that this is a gaming community after all, not a paid organisation, hence the leadership is fixed thereafter.

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Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:09 am
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#9 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
I can't quote on phone, but praising any player who doesn't apply in the Recruitment Corner isn't working.

Anyone who'd wish a spot has to apply, as far as I know theres no invitations for a recruited position.

For once I can partically agree with Dune, structure would be great.
Our current admin team might be doing stuff behind the scenes but whenever instantly needed, there's no possibilities.
Theres only one admin who would instantly reply when online, the rest is just hoping for an answer in time.
Some requests should be put up just like the major blackjack bug where y'all cooperated way better.
Not saying anything is worth to cause that right now, but the server is running empty and if you want it filled there'll be change required (not only from Xalus).

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Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:43 am
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#10 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
Dune wrote:
The administrators just don't seem motivated to do any work. I think you'd make a great administrator Silence. You're mature, active, and as long as you're CT Jailbreak keeps going. Can any administrator tell us what Silence lacks? It would be good for him and others to see where he stands and what he needs to work on.

Simply as that - I've never applied for a member position, YET.


Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:50 am
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#11 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
fuck you dune

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Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:31 pm
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#12 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
the only thing i can't understand is what's the point of the bullshit ur writing ? its like you adore doing this all the time, once about cash, next about server, now about the team just lol dude, its pointless you know ? you feel like you're doing some good job but for most you are like these whores who just suck d***s and lick shoes just to get some attention, idc if i get a ban for this post but its the truth trust me, if you don't like the community just leave.

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Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:37 pm
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#13 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
Dune
I really don't know what your prob is, you search in every direction in this community for things we might lack on. As you see we been able to hold this community longer up than 10 years and yet all you try to tell us is that we are so bad and not having this or that. Fun thing is you are a rulebreaker yourself, bcs once no staff is on in the server you start teamkilling on purpose and break other rules as for abuse, but want to come up with smartass posts that we have to fix this or that. Also if we lack on in so much directions, then I ask myself why the fuck you even here???
Wouldn't it be easier for you to just leave us all alone and to do yourself and us a favor with it. Pretty sure there are other communities who need a Sherlock Holmes like you are one. All you'll get here will be hate, ignorance, facepalms or whatever bad a dude like you could get. So as said my advice just leave and never come back and stay in happiness with some wannabe FBI dudes like you are one. You can be even thankful that after all your shit you brought to us that we still allow you to stick around here, even tho once someone read your name he must feel "what a bad atmosphere".
If you are in real life like this then I'm just sure you are here bcs you can't have any real friend/s. Once they know you better they run faster away from you then the flash himself.

Change your attitude in a way where you are really helpful for the community, with being friendly and useful and not that butthurt smartass who is just annoying. Once you are able to do so you might gain a lil tiny bit respect from someone and MAYBE you'll find a friend or two here then to have fun with. Good luck with it!

Btw a team can lead a company or a community as well, bcs for an example 6 eyes see more than 2 and 3 brains with different opinions can find a better solution for something than just one who leads everything like a dictator.

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Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:59 pm
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#14 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
i swear everytime i check the forums nowadays this kid is here complaining about his tiny johnson

do us all a favour and get lost g

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god damn 'muricans...!!

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Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:44 pm
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#15 Post Re: Who do admins answer to?
Nallez wrote:
i swear everytime i check the forums nowadays this kid is here complaining about his tiny johnson

do us all a favour and get lost g

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god damn 'muricans...!!


Hard agree on this, you've been complaining ever since you joined the forums :naughty:


Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:28 pm
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