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#1 Post Dear Community
I feel like I need to say some stuff as I've realized things are just getting worse and worse. It's been going on day and night every since I became a member and has been going on far longer than that. We moderators do our best to take control of bad situations and to keep the servers running smoothly, we do what we can with what evidence we get or with what we see with our own eyes. That's why people (should) apply, to enjoy the game but at the same time keep thing nice and clean.

I feel like too many people mix up a moderator's job with that and being some kind of "person that takes care of everything". These days, people, while whining may sound offensive or harsh I think it's a fitting word for it. People whine at every single thing that happens and asks members or admins to take care of it. Almost every time I see someone getting frustrated they either rage or tells the member what happened and then tells the member to watch him, switch him or something alike. We are not your parents or your nannies or your caretakers to deal with every single problem you as an individual have. If you think "Well it's your job why did you even apply if you're not going to care" No. It's not our job to sit in spec during the whole map just so you can be happy. We're not going to investigate every single person's individual case. We can't also take your words for granted, we can't blindly trust you so even if you say you got freekilled we are very hesitant to even trust let alone do what you ask. Even if we did it's incredibly boring and a serious burnout.

Honestly I don't doubt that's why most members leave in the first place. Playing in a server when wanting to relax, the first thing that happens is people telling you that you need to watch or switch people. We don't join the server to sit in spec for you, we join it to have fun. What I want to say is, if you are one of these people then you need to learn to take responsibility for yourself and stop putting your weight and problems on other people. It's a part of growing up, learning how to take care of yourself instead of expecting other people to do it.

While a handful of you reading this aren't the target for this there's more that are. The report section isn't just for the moderators, it's a tool for everyone to use including you and if you are too lazy to take care of your own problems don't expect others to do it for you. All in all, main point of this post is take responsibility for yourself please.


Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:23 pm
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#2 Post Re: Dear Community
I totally agree with you but if someone gets fked or tked thats the member responsiblity, i am not saying they should be sitting in spec 24/7 but just ask the guy that said he was tked/fked for proof and either keep that proof and report him later or just watch him for a couple of secs.......about you (members) being in spec a lot thats because no one is got power and its hella hard for people to be a member, this community focuses too much on being mature and half or more of the community is considered "immature" and they all got no powers and you the ones with power thats why we need you.....its not like you sit in spec for the whole day and more than 70% of the time you ban or kick the person reported so you did it for a good cause which is making the server go smooth, you (members) have powers to make the server go smoother which what you said, other wise if you just ignore people who report others then the server would be trash, harrassers, tkers, fkers and others which hopefully wont ever happen to the server. I still agree with you but not everything

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:06 pm
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#3 Post Re: Dear Community
Glad you made a post about this, you couldn't be more right.
Queen's Revenge wrote:
I see people everyday saying that members ruin the fun, that if it was them they would bring a really great atmosphere to the server and everything would be absolutely perfect. Looking from the outside, this is very easy to say and tbh when and before I was applying for member I had this idea aswell ("I'll be able to keep the servers clean, calm and controled"). In spite of all members trying their best to achieve this, it is pretty hard and you ALL should know this before instantly going on our backs.

Now, I've said this before, being a member isn't easy, specially when you are trying to moderate Jailbreak and it is something you guys should understand. Why would you want to make our job more difficult with insults, etc, if we all have the same goal?
Banana | L.A.P.D wrote:
I totally agree with you but if someone gets fked or tked thats the member responsiblity

We try to moderate as much as we can and sometimes it isn't possible to moderate every single thing since alot is going on at the same time. However, we do pay a little more attention to the ones that are known to create trouble. Like Decency said, we can't trust you blindly, some people lie, others think they got fked when they didn't, etc.

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:33 pm
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#4 Post Re: Dear Community
Yep, moderators are not supposed to fix all individuals' problems especially when it is about moderating jb because this mode especially is the hardest mode to handle and moderate and we dont need to rely on mods in every single problem. He freekilled you? record a demo and report, as simple as that. But one thing i have to mention is that many people do not record demos when they play jb thinking like "meh i do not have to record one" or simply forgetting, so I ask the admins to add an option like the rest of cs 1.6 communities to automatically start recording a demo in cstrike in case something happens so you have the demo saved in your cstrike.

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:10 pm
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#5 Post Re: Dear Community
Queue the list of members who will agree with Decency just because the subject is "how hard it is to be a member".

Firstly, I do not disagree with you on everything, one of the reasons I gave up 1.6 and mainly Jailbreak is because of how toxic this community has become, it might be nostalgia but I don't remember this much drama and shit going on in-game and on forum a couple of years ago, every damn round someone is complaining about this or that, cursing the other players. People may whine but remember that since you are a member they will seek help if they feel they have been wronged. I get that you occasionally want to play without having to worry about "being a member", I suggest you get a second account for that, because if you just ignore every single one that seeks out a member to help or w/e it will just fuel the fire of their member hatred.

I agree that players are way to sensitive and cannot handle a simple free kill without having to start a scene and curse the member or player out. If it's because of the "quality" of the members, the introduction of non-steam, age of the average player or just the player(s) in general I'll leave up for interpretation for those that are actually active on the server. Maybe it's time to go back a bit to what it used to mean when you broke the rules, serve out punishments in an earlier stage, mute/temp/strike those that make the server a toxic hell for the rest of the players. At this time it feels like there's two types of members, one is the one that just instantly punish the player, doesn't hear them out, sees a teamkill and bans. The other one is simply just letting all these rule breakers and trolls slip through their fingers and they are just looking the other way.

I get the feeling members feel like they are so special and unique. You've already had members who doesn't give a shit in game and believe it or not, that also hurts the community, seen moderators and whatnot abuse the shit out of their powers, ignore obvious rule breakers, trolls and all that just because they were friends with the one doing it, even breaking the rules themselves for "lulz", while others get a taste of the ban hammer for doing less, without even getting the chance to explain themselves. There is quite a few that are or have been in the "team" that I dislike purely based on how they have acted in game, in chat or on the forums. You still "represent" the community with that tag and if players see you abuse and all that, do you think they'll have more respect for members and the work they do?

Players are supposed to record the rule breakers, but why even bother when you already know the outcome? I used to record every single map I played partly during 2013 and 2014, lots of rule breakers I can tell you that, the thing is, it wont lead anywhere so it's to no use to bother submitting a report for those players. You can argue that all those minor stuff add up and eventually gets the player a ban but when you get told that it's no use to report a player for using a fucking spin hack because somehow, apparently, you "might" be able to re-create the motion itself and thus we cannot rule out that he is actually using a hack (like really? have any of you seen a spin hack in motion?), this is what can put players off and they seek a member for instant "justice" instead of having to submit a report that doesn't lead anywhere.

This post is coming out as a rant, I am well aware of that and I'm sure the majority of you are going to disagree with me, but when you got some members who doesn't think they can do anything wrong, a populated server with one of the worst atmospheres I've ever seen and players who blatantly ignore the rules constantly, I'm surprised this community is still afloat and it's no wonder players are leaving. Don't get me wrong, I still like this community but unless things starts getting better I doubt it will be here in a year or two.

//KaKao

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:47 pm
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#6 Post Re: Dear Community
If you want to enjoy the jailbreak you are talking of, you should join late night, kids are usually at bed and things are way easier to handle.

Quote:
At this time it feels like there's two types of members, one is the one that just instantly punish the player, doesn't hear them out, sees a teamkill and bans. The other one is simply just letting all these rule breakers and trolls slip through their fingers and they are just looking the other way.


What you are saying is relevant kakao but i think you underestimate the amount of shit we have to handle nowadays.

First of all, members are usually alone facing a full server. The moment you connect on the server, you get spammed so much by nonsteamers who are trying to be nice by asking questions which have nothing to do with the server but you still have to answer them since they will spam your name till you do and you don't want to gag them for asking a question. I don't feel i have to be nice to everyone constantly and yet, that's the only option i have left since they are usually quite young and if you don't answer them, they feel wronged and things become worse and worse so the best option is to answer them and pray they will stop.

Imagine you are stuck in a bus with two rows of spoiled 6 years old kids. Imagine you don't give a shit about any of them and yet, you have to answer every little question they ask otherwise the brainfuck you already have will be trippled. Well that's a good analogy with nonsteamers nowadays. As far as i'm concerned, that's a point that really burns me out everyday.

Then you have to deal with a delicate aspect which is the confrontation between regulars and nonsteamers, most of the time, you didn't see what happened and the information provided by the console isn't enough to make the right decision. Whatever decision you make will be based on the story provided by both sides, on that aspect, the regular usually has an advantage on that since he is more familiar with how it rolls in here and he will give you what you want. The best call is to call a neutral person but guess what, unfortunately you don't have one most of the time.

Let's take something that happened today for example: Haffish took a scout on the roof and slapped a nonsteamer. The nonsteamer shouted about abusing and how he used his powers to get the gun. Haffish simply told me the gun would have been his either way. Well what do you do ? Warn him cause he slapped a random person ? Tell him not to do it even though he didn't do anything wrong if what he said is right ? The right call is to call for a witness. Minato was the witness that time and he agreed with haffish ^^ How the hell am i supposed to know wether or not he is just protecting his friend ? I do not know. So i ended up doing nothing since haffish was apparently clean on that one. Oh wait, actually i had to deal with the nonsteamer since he proceeded to harass afterward.

The other aspect that really burns me out personally is the amount of time i repeat something for the only sake of repeating it since the guy won't listen to me or do not understand me, well as far as you are concerned, you percieve this as instantly punishing the player but i can assure you we keep repeating ourselves over and over again.

I just wanted to make sure you see that peculiar aspect of our job ^^

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:47 am
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#7 Post Re: Dear Community
Flath wrote:
The other aspect that really burns me out personally is the amount of time i repeat something for the only sake of repeating it since the guy won't listen to me or do not understand me, well as far as you are concerned, you percieve this as instantly punishing the player but i can assure you we keep repeating ourselves over and over again.
I know what you are talking about and I get it, if it's just word against word there isn't much you can do as a member... or... if you do something about it the other part (haffish in this case) would probably get pissed that you punished him based on the non-steamers accusations, which may or may not have been true, you can't win here.

I understand that you have to repeat yourself over and over again, though I've seen members acting harsh on players the very first round for something they did, before they have the chance to even reply to any accusations they are hit with slays, switches and whatnot, I know these cases are rare but it does happen, it might simply be because the last map you told someone else the exact same thing and when someone does it at the start of the new map you cba to once again say it so you just punish the player and be done with it.

Maybe it's time to go over what can be done for the Jailbreak server and this community in general, because it doesn't feel like it works that well now (apart from the populated servers), I assume you got a few active jail members that can pin point some of the problems a bit better than the admins since you are most likely more active then most of them in game. Possibly try to come up with a solution that might ease the work for members and admins because at the moment it looks like no one enjoys the game at all. Players, admins and members drop out, goes inactive, doesn't bother any more and the atmosphere on the server has gone down the drain.

//KaKao

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:19 am
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#8 Post Re: Dear Community
Quote:
The report section isn't just for the moderators, it's a tool for everyone to use including you

I love this quote.

Also, I'd like to see a variety of moderators ingame.
Like, there's 1 group that is there to help people when they've been wronged (and have mastered the moderation and are mainly members because of that), and there's another group, that can entertain the same people afterward, but also be there for them in serious occasions when needed.

Then, I feel like members have given too much help to everybody in the server, leading to looking like a "triggerhappy" type in front of other players. (What I mean here is -> reacting to everyone's most unimportant complaints.)
The problem is that these players would get used to it and then they would start using (or abusing) members, pushing them to fix everything that annoys them.

Then, they should be encouraged to report anything that bothers them. Take screenshots, record demos (heck, record the whole gameplay of yours, at least until you spot something that bothers you). This should be added to plugin server message list, that pops up from time to time in the chat. Maybe it's already there, but perhaps it should be more highlighted.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:02 am
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#9 Post Re: Dear Community
It is true and i know and feel and even experienced the pain of what you called whining , I am sure that those players doesn't mean a thing and i assure you that atleast half of the regulars appreciate the job members are doing, One of the reasons why i'm applying for the nD Fun team is to put effort on moderating and making the Fun servers- No , but THE WHOLE ND community a better place to hang at/play in.

You are appreciated Decency and only god knows how much you really care about the community and to be honest i'd like to see you in green suits soon, Great job.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:21 pm
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#10 Post Re: Dear Community
IT actually is the job of a moderator to solve every individuals problem, that's why there are several members. You need to be there for every one of them and some people can not handle that stress. What I did back when I was a member I usually called other members to help me out and mostly it did help me and it did calm the server. Well I kinda agree that you don't have to sit in spec just to make sure one player is happy but, if needed you do need to sit in spec to make sure the server is calmed down. You are not their parent, their nannies, but you kinda are their caretakers.

That's how I handled, true it's stressing a lot but you are one of the few that have these powers and can actually handle it in THAT MOMENT, like me when there are no members in the server and you have Justus as an CT, you know you're gonna have a bad time.. Then u wish you have a member online because what he is doing isn't strikeable in one piece but should be handled in-game. I'm currently gathering proof of him, so don't worry I'm doing my job as a regular as well by reporting, wich I think ALL applicants should (as I see almost none of them that apply for JB are doing) as it is a big con and very selfish if you are applying for membership but are not doing anything about the server without powers by reporting.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:57 pm
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#11 Post Re: Dear Community
Ok, you say you can't take care of everything and you are absolutely right. Things get frustrating for an individual without powers when he is dealt with (unfairly, f.e freekilled/sees a rule been broken by cts) and upon complaining that individual is either ignored or labelled as a whiner. Whereas if the member was in the same situation, he'd be quick to react. Why did you apply for member in the first place if you knew that people are going to complain if rules are broken because the way I see it, you tried hard to be accepted and when you got accepted, you mind your own gameplay and everyone else be damned. I am not saying this happens on a daily basis but it happens more than one can tolerate. I've had experience that a member would straight up kick someone for harassing but take ages to figure out if someone was freekilled or not. You don't have to SEE everything to take actions, you are granted mic access so use it to moderate by asking questions in case someone was freekilled when the time is appropriate. For you decency, stop being a lil whiny bitch lol I've seen you ignore people for their complains while you are clearly messing around on the chat and one does not get your attention unless he insults you, pretty low self-esteem you've got there lad. You think that regulars/players will not be pissed off if they repeatedly face the same situation and get 0 help from the member/admin because the member/admin cannot be arsed to handle complains but instead deal with the situation by labeling the indiviual a "whiner" or asking that person to "stop crying / let it go"? When I didn't feel like moderating anymore, I resigned instead of holding up on my power and see people getting pissed off at me for trying to relax, guess you don't have that much self-respect for yourself. (This text also concerns the legendary member veghan who changed his steam details to come and play in the jailbreak server without having to moderate)

Conclusion: I know it can get a lil challenging to moderate at times but if you're concerned for your gameplay more than you are concerned for the quality of gameplay for other regulars, do yourself and others a favor, either start paying attention to complains or resign so that you don't get too much shit for what you do. Enough said.

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Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:33 pm
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#12 Post Re: Dear Community
doeda wrote:
IT actually is the job of a moderator to solve every individuals problem, that's why there are several members. You need to be there for every one of them and some people can not handle that stress. What I did back when I was a member I usually called other members to help me out and mostly it did help me and it did calm the server. Well I kinda agree that you don't have to sit in spec just to make sure one player is happy but, if needed you do need to sit in spec to make sure the server is calmed down. You are not their parent, their nannies, but you kinda are their caretakers.

That's how I handled, true it's stressing a lot but you are one of the few that have these powers and can actually handle it in THAT MOMENT, like me when there are no members in the server and you have Justus as an CT, you know you're gonna have a bad time.. Then u wish you have a member online because what he is doing isn't strikeable in one piece but should be handled in-game. I'm currently gathering proof of him, so don't worry I'm doing my job as a regular as well by reporting, wich I think ALL applicants should (as I see almost none of them that apply for JB are doing) as it is a big con and very selfish if you are applying for membership but are not doing anything about the server without powers by reporting.


I kind of have to disagree with you here Doda.
Even tho it is the members job to keep the server in peace, they are still not robots and can't see or do everything. (I still want to write we, wtf).
I know a countless of times where there have been caos on the zombie server and I've been all on my own. It is my job to calm everything down, but I did not however act like a mom, caretaker or as a personal problem solver to every kid on that sever. I made sure the worst people either got their punishment or calmed down rather than confuse myself and try to fix every problem.

I do also know for a fact that you will not always get help from other memeber. I know countless of times when I've been on the jailbreak server and EVERYONE asked me for help, even tho there where a bunch of jailbreak members on. Every little thing that happened was put on me for some reason, and people must have got this crazy idea stuck in their heads that I was supposed to be a robot, see everything, do everything and ban everyone. It doesnt work like that, at all. Decency are completely right in this.
It's a community, memebers do not exist for fixing every persons own problem, they exists in order to keep the rulebreakers away from the servers and contain a fun and peaceful place. No where in the description when I became member did it say that "I solomly swear to fix every little bug, idiotic problem and trust every everyones words for it".


Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:05 pm
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#13 Post Re: Dear Community
@Apples

Have you ever heard of the psychological term "Displaced aggression"? Link

It's when you're angry and act toward something or someone else rather than the actual source of the negative feelings. I think you should check it up, it's causing a lot unnecessary anger and it won't stop unless you solve it properly and you are being quite destructive right now. It doesn't make sense to me how you can be so incredibly angry, I mean I honestly can't think of any action I've done that should have caused this level of hostility. I answer politely when you ask me stuff even though it might be after a round or two since I was in the middle of something, I do my best trying to solve what you ask for even though your attitude is hostile and annoying. If I've ever done something that's below ideal standards I can't really blame myself when all you do is talk shit. You're like that fish that sticks to its partner and follow it where ever it goes but that partner is me and you just keep spouting nonsense.


Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:17 pm
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#14 Post Re: Dear Community
Of course they can't see everything, and it's really frustrating when everyone spams you and tries to get help. But what I mean is, when you don't get helped you feel left out, get angry and start to break the rules yourself. Yes not every member will come help you, because the current team isn't working as a team.

It's a different view of perspective actually.

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Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:47 pm
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#15 Post Re: Dear Community
Guys, we are all allowed to have different opinions and to display them, but please do it in a respectful way. In fact, from the moment you disrespect someone you kinda lose your point. :)

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Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:50 pm
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