Unbanning players that DDossed

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Kwaakt
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Kwaakt »

Shadi wrote:Yeah, there's a difference with influencing million of people's financial life in comparison (you said it yourself) to a few minutes of gametime. Plus the judgement system in Netherlands doesn't have to be coherent to nD's. Nor are we police to actually track and judge people for this.
You cant read between the lines. Neither can you understand the thin line between attacking a gaming site and creating such a succesfull attack. You clearly dont (want?) to see the impact a ddos has. And its not minutes of gaming time. the servers back then have been unstable for days
Shadi wrote:For me it's not fast. I really don't see how it's so hard to comprehend that our views and perspectives of how long one year is are entirely different.
I argue with you because you fail to see reason. You dont seem to understand why a year isnt that long for the actions you have done with a ddos. I dont understand how you can be so soft in such a short time period to someone that attacked the thing you are working so hard for.
Shadi wrote:I may have once in my admin career heard someone say "if i get banned for 6 months so what I will come back after" no most ppl think they're gonna be gone for good then.
I could see this argument if it was a month or so.. as I said our perspectives on times are different. I think we should just agree to disagree.
Im not going to agree to disagree. Thats not why I started this discussion. I started this discussion to at least try to convince you of an idea you have that might be wrong. But unfortunatly I get the feeling you arent sensitive to other ideas. +
Shadi wrote:Again, I haven't argued about which one is more severe.
Thats exactly where I want to argue about with you. You try not to state your opinion on this. Give me/us a some reasons why you think ddossing isnt so bad? Even not so bad a cheater gets a year, and a ddosser less. And motivate why you think a ddosser should be unbanned so fast. Because at this moment there starts to be an unfair difference between them.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Shadi »

Kwaakt wrote:
Shadi wrote:Yeah, there's a difference with influencing million of people's financial life in comparison (you said it yourself) to a few minutes of gametime. Plus the judgement system in Netherlands doesn't have to be coherent to nD's. Nor are we police to actually track and judge people for this.
You cant read between the lines. Neither can you understand the thin line between attacking a gaming site and creating such a succesfull attack. You clearly dont (want?) to see the impact a ddos has. And its not minutes of gaming time. the servers back then have been unstable for days
That was before we had protection to this level, now it hardly even happens.
To me it's not a thin line. This is the key factor Kwaakt.

We have different opinions, understand this. It's that simple. You think it should be longer and I don't agree, we don't have to agree. I am completely fine with you having your opinion I however struggle to see why you want me to have yours so hard.
Kwaakt wrote: I argue with you because you fail to see reason. You dont seem to understand why a year isnt that long for the actions you have done with a ddos. I dont understand how you can be so soft in such a short time period to someone that attacked the thing you are working so hard for.
Because I am a strong believer of second chances, and at the earliest convenience which I don't think is a year in these cases. I don't want potential good regulars to be removed for a year when they can provide support earlier than that. When it's easy to ban them once they commit an offence again.

Case 1: Regular hasn't learnt, ban him again. Basically nothing changed.
Case 2: Regular learnt, regular could be competent, regular can become admin(Maki)/member or a good regular

Case 2 will give us potential years of support, case 1 will give us 10 minutes of trouble where the rule breaker will end up losing, not us. To me, there's a clear weight issue in the decision.
Shadi wrote:I may have once in my admin career heard someone say "if i get banned for 6 months so what I will come back after" no most ppl think they're gonna be gone for good then.
I could see this argument if it was a month or so.. as I said our perspectives on times are different. I think we should just agree to disagree.
Kwaakt wrote: Im not going to agree to disagree. Thats not why I started this discussion. I started this discussion to at least try to convince you of an idea you have that might be wrong. But unfortunatly I get the feeling you arent sensitive to other ideas. +
Shadi wrote:Again, I haven't argued about which one is more severe.
Kwaakt wrote: Thats exactly where I want to argue about with you. You try not to state your opinion on this. Give me/us a some reasons why you think ddossing isnt so bad? Even not so bad a cheater gets a year, and a ddosser less. And motivate why you think a ddosser should be unbanned so fast. Because at this moment there starts to be an unfair difference between them.
I haven't avoided it, I just don't think it's what we are discussing.

I think cheating should be lower given how a lot of people commit to that mistake once, and can and are willing to learn from it. Once we spotted it and we can spot that they stopped, it's cool and they can then become a regular.

ddos I used to be more strict about, but eventually as I saw more and more cases being let go of easier and seen positive results of it I believe in the people more.

I think successful ddos attacks are worse than cheating, but I don't think any of them warrant to a year.

We need to stop putting things in boxes, just because someone is a cheater we have this guy stamped as a cheater for a year, regardless of who he is and what he can do - or what good he has done.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Kwaakt »

due to study and work Ill reply in some days
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Lien~ »

I agree with Shadi. People learn from their mistakes. We have had people that done worse shit than cheating, less than ddossing and only got 1 strike for it. Different shit, same story. Also I believe people can change, for the better or the worse is to be determined at a later stage.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Kwaakt »

People can change.... Yes of course they do. That is not why I've started this discussion. And that is not what I want to discuss. Cause I also believe they must have a second chance

I have started this discussion cause a signal is given that ddossing is not so bad. I find that wrong. And I'm scared that nD is getting attacked way more due to this. And that's not what I want. So. I'm not talking about giving people a second chance. They should get one. I do agree with that.

I'm talking about that it seems to be that you don't seem to care if someone ddosses you. Or the servers where you put so much time into.

And if there is an unfair disbalance between banning times. It is time to update the guideline. In such a way ALL admins agree to it.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by bis »

I don't see the mentality behind comparing a player using cheats and a player intentionally causing downtime and possibly threatening a source of nD's income. One is petty and easily preventable/solvable one is illegal and criminal. I'm with Kwaakt, i've seen communities forced to fold due to DDoS, months of downtime both server and forum, for the server provider to finally fix the issue and within two days their connections are flooded once again. Communities racking in hundreds of dollars a week in donations, picture nD's positive increase in server activity over the past two months with the amount of VIP purchases, now add in players like Cammy/Panda who are toxic with the additional threat of DDoS and wipe that increase away. This is a stupid topic and unbanning players that have DDoS'ed shouldn't even be questionable.

P.S. Fuck Maki. Adder Reda Bugatti CoKC uRkcsu.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Konijn »

People seem to be under the impression that someone being banned stops them from being able to perform these DDoS attacks.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Kwaakt »

Konijn wrote:People seem to be under the impression that someone being banned stops them from being able to perform these DDoS attacks.
Ofcourse not.

This is navigating around the problem konijn.

If you are soft to players that have ddossed and they want to come back, and it is judged so soft, others might start easier with ddossing aswell.

But actually. Im getting suprised over and over again that you are so soft against ddossers.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by bis »

Konijn wrote:People seem to be under the impression that someone being banned stops them from being able to perform these DDoS attacks.
didn't cammy stop ddosing once he was permed? lol the sad little nerds who ddos get bored the day they get striked
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Konijn »

freeda_khala wrote:
Konijn wrote:People seem to be under the impression that someone being banned stops them from being able to perform these DDoS attacks.
didn't cammy stop ddosing once he was permed? lol the sad little nerds who ddos get bored the day they get striked
Nope. He only stopped DDoSing after I wrote scripts to counter-act the affects of his DDoSes (it detected the drones and automatically banned them, making his attacks pointless).
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Thorri »

That's not true. The only people that were ddos'ed not by me but a friend of mine were Xeph, Xeon, Maki and some other guy because they thought it was funny to stalk my facebook and look up my sister(ha ha ha top banter). Not once did I ddos anyone before/after whereas another case you can count is where Panda ddos'ed Waschera and many others when on the server not to mention the server himself while ban evading. My case is completely different from his but I'm being singled out for some reason. I may act like as if I'm threatening anyone but there has only been 1 case where I've been INVOLVED(not directly done it) and it wasa well over a year ago. Your "anti-ddos" scripts didn't do anything at all because yet again Panda hit the website offline while I sent a message to Shadi about it asking what happened to the site and it was down for the duration of the attack despite Shadi saying that he told you(ko9) about it and were in discussion about it.

They'll all claim that they're innocent but everyone knows what they're like... Chatbox for starters with their harassing/racist comments not to mention ingame. That's cool though it doesn't affect me they can make their claims of "I started it" but why would I pick a fight with 4 mongs that think they're internet crazy?

-Cammy
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Konijn »

Thorri wrote:That's not true. The only people that were ddos'ed not by me but a friend of mine were Xeph, Xeon, Maki and some other guy because they thought it was funny to stalk my facebook and look up my sister(ha ha ha top banter). Not once did I ddos anyone before/after whereas another case you can count is where Panda ddos'ed Waschera and many others when on the server not to mention the server himself while ban evading. My case is completely different from his but I'm being singled out for some reason. I may act like as if I'm threatening anyone but there has only been 1 case where I've been INVOLVED(not directly done it) and it wasa well over a year ago. Your "anti-ddos" scripts didn't do anything at all because yet again Panda hit the website offline while I sent a message to Shadi about it asking what happened to the site and it was down for the duration of the attack despite Shadi saying that he told you(ko9) about it and were in discussion about it.

They'll all claim that they're innocent but everyone knows what they're like... Chatbox for starters with their harassing/racist comments not to mention ingame. That's cool though it doesn't affect me they can make their claims of "I started it" but why would I pick a fight with 4 mongs that think they're internet crazy?

-Cammy
Firstly, the anti-ddos scripts did stop the website/forums from being knocked offline.

Secondly, Cammy is banned from the forums, if you circumvent this ban by relaying messages on his behalf, I will ban your account as well. He is banned for a reason and by relaying messages you're belittling the punishment he has been given. I've told you about this before, posting messages of his in the chat box so you know full well that this is not acceptable. I won't warn you again.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by QuErza! »

Konijn wrote:
Thorri wrote:That's not true. The only people that were ddos'ed not by me but a friend of mine were Xeph, Xeon, Maki and some other guy because they thought it was funny to stalk my facebook and look up my sister(ha ha ha top banter). Not once did I ddos anyone before/after whereas another case you can count is where Panda ddos'ed Waschera and many others when on the server not to mention the server himself while ban evading. My case is completely different from his but I'm being singled out for some reason. I may act like as if I'm threatening anyone but there has only been 1 case where I've been INVOLVED(not directly done it) and it wasa well over a year ago. Your "anti-ddos" scripts didn't do anything at all because yet again Panda hit the website offline while I sent a message to Shadi about it asking what happened to the site and it was down for the duration of the attack despite Shadi saying that he told you(ko9) about it and were in discussion about it.

They'll all claim that they're innocent but everyone knows what they're like... Chatbox for starters with their harassing/racist comments not to mention ingame. That's cool though it doesn't affect me they can make their claims of "I started it" but why would I pick a fight with 4 mongs that think they're internet crazy?

-Cammy
Firstly, the anti-ddos scripts did stop the website/forums from being knocked offline.

Secondly, Cammy is banned from the forums, if you circumvent this ban by relaying messages on his behalf, I will ban your account as well. He is banned for a reason and by relaying messages you're belittling the punishment he has been given. I've told you about this before, posting messages of his in the chat box so you know full well that this is not acceptable. I won't warn you again.
you better listen thorri :naughty: :naughty:
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Maki »

Thorri wrote:That's not true. The only people that were ddos'ed not by me but a friend of mine were Xeph, Xeon, Maki and some other guy because they thought it was funny to stalk my facebook and look up my sister(ha ha ha top banter). Not once did I ddos anyone before/after whereas another case you can count is where Panda ddos'ed Waschera and many others when on the server not to mention the server himself while ban evading. My case is completely different from his but I'm being singled out for some reason. I may act like as if I'm threatening anyone but there has only been 1 case where I've been INVOLVED(not directly done it) and it wasa well over a year ago. Your "anti-ddos" scripts didn't do anything at all because yet again Panda hit the website offline while I sent a message to Shadi about it asking what happened to the site and it was down for the duration of the attack despite Shadi saying that he told you(ko9) about it and were in discussion about it.

They'll all claim that they're innocent but everyone knows what they're like... Chatbox for starters with their harassing/racist comments not to mention ingame. That's cool though it doesn't affect me they can make their claims of "I started it" but why would I pick a fight with 4 mongs that think they're internet crazy?

-Cammy
Please don't flatter yourself, you're not that worthy of my time that I'd ever bother looking you up, let alone anyone of your family.
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Re: Unbanning players that DDossed

Post by Kwaakt »

I think Ive written my concerns down. Im gonna stop writing about this. Cause it takes more energy then I should and want to put in. But honestly: It is stupid to be so soft to ddossers. And shadi, step up once and dont let yourself being run over.

I rest my case.
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